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Lord Of Storms
03-15-2004, 19:25
The list of your suggestions:
And a few I threw in to fill out the list.LOS

Kaatar
03-15-2004, 22:55
How about the Crafter's Workshop?

Just went with that because I don't think a keep could fit inside a dungeon. Please don't hurt me for posting this

octavian
03-16-2004, 02:45
Quote[/b] (Kaatar @ Mar. 15 2004,17:55)]Just went with that because I don't think a keep could fit inside a dungeon.
lol, very smart http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Kekvit Irae
03-16-2004, 03:50
Brothel

Antalis::
03-16-2004, 10:47
Heavens gate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ShadesWolf
03-16-2004, 14:11
I like The Engineers Guild as does most other people it seems http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Kekvit Irae
03-16-2004, 15:00
Bah, I wanted Brothel That way I can be the Mistress :Þ

Rosacrux
03-16-2004, 15:03
Quote[/b] (kekvitirae @ Mar. 16 2004,08:00)]Bah, I wanted Brothel That way I can be the Mistress :Þ
I am having rather... displeasing images trying to flesh out Kek as a mistress... oh, I think calling it the Engineers guild is not fitting... because there are less industrius but more intellectually inclined among us modding fans.

Antalis::
03-16-2004, 15:13
I know its not in the list, but I say it again: I want Heavens gate , lol. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-builder.gif

Kekvit Irae
03-16-2004, 17:52
Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ Mar. 16 2004,08:03)]I am having rather... displeasing images trying to flesh out Kek as a mistress... oh, I think calling it the Engineers guild is not fitting... because there are less industrius but more intellectually inclined among us modding fans.
Spoil sport :P

Voigtkampf
03-16-2004, 18:38
The Engineers Guild

Lord Zimoa of Flanders
03-16-2004, 21:50
Engineer's guild is wise, but the Brothel.... for God's sake people, what sick bastard would come with that one.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

P.S.Gents have you ever tried to explain to outsiders what your interests are or what you do in the evening,believe me it is hopeless

They think we are all NERDSSo i would like to say the next time someone asks me:well..... this night i went to the Brothel

And i wouldn't even be lying http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-balloon.gif

Eastside Character
03-17-2004, 00:19
Quote[/b] (Count Zimoa of Flanders @ Mar. 16 2004,14:50)]They think we are all NERDS
Im not.

Regards,
EC

Voigtkampf
03-17-2004, 07:12
Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ Mar. 16 2004,17:19)]
Quote[/b] (Count Zimoa of Flanders @ Mar. 16 2004,14:50)]They think we are all NERDS
Im not.

Regards,
EC
Me neither, but I keep trying…

Rosacrux
03-17-2004, 12:08
Quote[/b] (voigtkampf @ Mar. 17 2004,00:12)]
Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ Mar. 16 2004,17:19)]
Quote[/b] (Count Zimoa of Flanders @ Mar. 16 2004,14:50)]They think we are all NERDS
Im not.

Regards,
EC
Me neither, but I keep trying…
I haven't got the knack for it... and anyways nobody ever called me a nerd, that would be quite ridiculous.

But since many seem to believe that modders are nerds ... well, here it goes (my suggestion for the new forum, that is):

The Nerd's lair

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

So, next time someone asks Zimoa where he've been, he can happily say "at the Nerd's lair" and that'll be fitting his image.

BTW Zimoa, what's Portuguese for "nerd"? In Greek it's "Spasiklas"... had loads of fun with those back at school http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

(P.S. "back in school" from where I stand is quite some centuries in the past, lost in the midst of antiquity)

komninos
03-17-2004, 14:07
Hi,

I voted for The Modder's Collective it is more elegant than the Engineers Guild and more close to what purpose it comes to serve. Now the Borthel is not that far either http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif but I would have a hard time imagining Kekvit as the Misters ... sorry mate you lack the curvature ~:P .

On the Nerds subject ... well I have worse names in the past ... since the early 80’s ... being a member of the moding community from the early 90’s I don’t think moders are nerds ... creasy - yes, creative - definitely, gifted - some times, superb - rarely, excessively admired - most of the time, idiots - well considering that they could be nicely be paid form the companies to do what they do best, instead some times they end with threats from exactly the people that should be thanking them, yes

Lord Of Storms
03-17-2004, 15:26
Quote[/b] (komninos @ Mar. 17 2004,07:07)]Hi,

I voted for The Modder's Collective it is more elegant than the Engineers Guild and more close to what purpose it comes to serve. Now the Borthel is not that far either http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif but I would have a hard time imagining Kekvit as the Misters ... sorry mate you lack the curvature ~:P .

On the Nerds subject ... well I have worse names in the past ... since the early 80’s ... being a member of the moding community from the early 90’s I don’t think moders are nerds ... creasy - yes, creative - definitely, gifted - some times, superb - rarely, excessively admired - most of the time, idiots - well considering that they could be nicely be paid form the companies to do what they do best, instead some times they end with threats from exactly the people that should be thanking them, yes
I happen to agree with Kom, I like The Modder's Collective, it is simple yet decriptive of what we do.
Also Kom as to Kekvit's curves, I am not sure if your aware, Kekvit is a Shenot a Mate so she just may have the Curvature to be the Dungeon Mistress http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ...LOS

Aymar de Bois Mauri
03-17-2004, 17:03
Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ Mar. 17 2004,05:08)]BTW Zimoa, what's Portuguese for "nerd"? In Greek it's "Spasiklas"... had loads of fun with those back at school http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
We don't have that expression in Portuguese, because none of us is... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink2.gif

Seriously, although the Portuguese language has abundant synonyms for most words, we don't have a specific expression for it.

Lord Zimoa of Flanders
03-17-2004, 20:36
Rosacrux i'me a Dutch bloke living in Belgium so i don't no anything about Portugese ask Flip instead..... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
To clarify something i don't consider myself or any modder or member of the Org a nerdIt was meant as a cynical joke...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif CZoF

Kekvit Irae
03-17-2004, 21:30
I personally like the Crafter's Keep or Engineer's Guild. A little more sophisticated than the Modders Collective. Whenever I think of the Collective, I keep getting visions of the Borg, or the Hive from Alpha Centauri

EDIT: You know you are a computer geek when you celebrate your 256th post ^_^

Rosacrux
03-18-2004, 10:59
OK,ok, ok... Kekvit is a curvy "she" (a picture would help us see if you are fit for the mistress role... might even change my vote to Bordel if it's right - the curves, I mean http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Flip and not Zimoa is the Portuguese one (sorry Zimoa but... what's Dutch for nerd or geek?) - Thanks Aymar, but there must be some sort of Portugal geek... I've met one once http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif and... I insist on the Nerd's lair.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

PseRamesses
03-18-2004, 14:52
The Engineers guild says it all IMHO.

komninos
03-18-2004, 15:37
Kekvit, sorry about the curvature comment I didn’t know ... though I agree with Rosacrux for the Mistress title you have to prove your worth http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
BTW since you passed your 256th post on to the 512th post celebration http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Now sorry to the rest of you, ... a pissed off Greek has to get it out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Rosacrux, bre palio k... akou ekei Nerd's lair, oxi tipota allo 0a eimai ekei mesa sxedon sinexia ... ti 0a me kaneis re Arxi-Spasikla Aggggrrrrrr ~ ;)

Aymar de Bois Mauri
03-18-2004, 16:16
Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ Mar. 18 2004,03:59)]Thanks Aymar, but there must be some sort of Portugal geek... I've met one once http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

I didn't meant to say that there weren't any. We just don't call them anything in particular. In fact, we just don't give them that much credit... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink2.gif

Rosacrux
03-18-2004, 16:20
Quote[/b] (komninos @ Mar. 18 2004,08:37)]Rosacrux, bre palio k... akou ekei Nerd's lair, oxi tipota allo 0a eimai ekei mesa sxedon sinexia ... ti 0a me kaneis re Arxi-Spasikla Aggggrrrrrr ~ ;)
Kala, afou epimeneis...

Hear, Hear

May I have your attention please, ladies (kekvitrae, that is) and gentlemen...

I have an announcment to make on behalf of Komninos.

After careful consideration, he decided to change the title of his, as for the HTW Gerousia, that is. His new title is....

....ta-dah...

Chief Nerd http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Zimoa shall be Deputy Chief Nerd and Flip Vice Nerd. If I may add myself to this collective, I could be called Honorary Nerd http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Kaatar
03-18-2004, 18:17
Leave kekvitirae alone Gender isn't important here. I'd say the only thing of importance on this board is contribution and kekvitirae has contributed more than her fair share There will be no porno on this thread ... seriously

Engineer's Guild is starting to grow on me. I like it.

Kekvit Irae
03-18-2004, 18:39
Quote[/b] (Kaatar @ Mar. 18 2004,11:17)]Leave kekvitirae alone Gender isn't important here. I'd say the only thing of importance on this board is contribution and kekvitirae has contributed more than her fair share There will be no porno on this thread ... seriously

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Antalis::
03-18-2004, 19:13
Are that really you?
You look really beautiful http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif


Ok, back to topic: I think "Modders collective" would be good.

Lord Of Storms
03-18-2004, 19:20
OK Guys you had your fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif this is a poll for the naming of our new Mod dev. forum remember?
stay on topic http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif
P.S. And show respect to our resident Lady Modder,
behave like gentleman. thanks all...LOS
P.P.S Kekvit Hubba Hubba http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif

[DnC]
03-18-2004, 19:21
Guess I'm the only one who likes The Builders Chambers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

komninos
03-18-2004, 20:12
OK ... Kekvit you are hired as a honourable mistress of the The Modder's Collective. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

Still hate the Engineers Guild thing ...

Ahh Kekvit I agree with the Borg Collective thing though modding has the same effect ... resistance is futile

Ones a Satir always a Satir ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

Lord Zimoa of Flanders
03-18-2004, 20:45
Rosacrux,the Dutch word for Nerd is "Eikel".So that's makes Kom the Opper-Eikel http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri
03-18-2004, 22:17
*looks at kekvitirae's portrait*


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/jawdrop.gif


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_fainting.gif



http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-snore.gif


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-snore.gif


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-snore.gif


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-snore.gif


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-snore.gif


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-snore.gif


*wakes up* http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stars.gif

UAU http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wideeyed.gif





And before repected moderator Lord Of Storms starts chasing me, my choise is something that isn't an option: The Crafter's Guild http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink.gif

Lord Zimoa of Flanders
03-18-2004, 22:28
Miss Alabama 2004 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-glasses2.gif

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-balloon.gif

komninos
03-19-2004, 00:09
Oh well it is nice to have fun even in an improper thread.
On the other hand what do you expect from a bunch of nerds like us that have selected me as there Opper-Eikel http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

Any way since nobody says anything about the name can we have a number of ideas in some special privileges and rules for that folder?

i.e.
1. That the moderators move mod threads in there only and can't be started in there?
2. A "Certified" Modders class that get the privilege of starting a new thread in there for new mods

Aymar de Bois Mauri
03-19-2004, 00:15
Quote[/b] (komninos @ Mar. 18 2004,17:09)]Any way since nobody says anything about the name can we have a number of ideas in some special privileges and rules for that folder?

i.e.
1. That the moderators move mod threads in there only and can't be started in there?
2. A "Certified" Modders class that get the privilege of starting a new thread in there for new mods
1. I think they got that covered.
2. What do you mean by "Certified" Modders class? Who will certify what?

Kekvit Irae
03-19-2004, 01:30
Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Mar. 18 2004,17:15)]2. What do you mean by "Certified" Modders class? Who will certify what?
I agree. Adding a title and rank to people just because their mods are well known adds a certain level of elitism to the modder community, saying that Certified Modders are "good at what they do" and "everyone else is not".
I want to avoid that at any cost, especially since if it was not for the contributions of a new modder, we would have never figured out the CTD fix for new factions.

neogerry
03-19-2004, 03:19
The Engineers Guild is the best http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Qilue
03-19-2004, 04:10
What exactly is the purpose of the new forum? I can't vote unless I know for what I'm supposed to be voting.

The Repositry contains guides and such.
The Alchemists Lab is for modding questions and mod releases.
Is it for released mods or what?

Kekvit Irae
03-19-2004, 04:33
Quote[/b] (Qilue @ Mar. 18 2004,21:10)]What exactly is the purpose of the new forum? I can't vote unless I know for what I'm supposed to be voting.

The Repositry contains guides and such.
The Alchemists Lab is for modding questions and mod releases.
Is it for released mods or what?
Damned if I know. I just vote randomly.

Qilue
03-19-2004, 05:45
Quote[/b] (kekvitirae @ Mar. 18 2004,21:33)]
Quote[/b] (Qilue @ Mar. 18 2004,21:10)]What exactly is the purpose of the new forum? I can't vote unless I know for what I'm supposed to be voting.

The Repositry contains guides and such.
The Alchemists Lab is for modding questions and mod releases.
Is it for released mods or what?
Damned if I know. I just vote randomly.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

Seriously though, that's not very helpful. :)

Kekvit Irae
03-19-2004, 05:59
Quote[/b] (Qilue @ Mar. 18 2004,22:45)]Seriously though, that's not very helpful. :)
Never said it was ^_^

Qilue
03-19-2004, 06:09
Ok then.

*closes eyes and selects option at random*


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif

Duke John
03-19-2004, 07:59
The Alchemists Lab is for discussion on how to make mods while the Engineers Guild is where the mods are actually made and discussed. The Alchemists are trying stuff out, while the Engineers actually construct something...

The Guild has given its forums fancy names, such as the Main Hall, Jousting Field and not descriptive names; Single Player, Multi Player. While "Modder's Collective" might be clearer it doesn't fit IMO in the Guild's custom of naming forums.

Rosacrux
03-19-2004, 08:09
Some moderator, please, help me to change my vote. I'd like to vote "Brothel", two dozen times over please. So we can appoint the lovely Kekvitrae (curvy and all - I must confess I was wrong as wrong can be) as High Mistress And Generally A Treat For The Tired Modder And Geek http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

If that isn't possible, let's just pronounce her "High Mistress of the Geeks" - a host of them has already shown quite an ...errr... affection (by drooling and other less formal ways to express certain emotions) to her unanimusly approved qualities

Komnine, Opper-Eikel, Archi-Spasikla, Chief Nerd, I salute you too. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Kekvit Irae
03-19-2004, 08:15
Having a title other than Count would be nice, but something a little more fitting (and PG rated) ;)

komninos
03-19-2004, 09:21
Quote[/b] ]Adding a title and rank to people just because their mods are well known adds a certain level of elitism to the modder community, saying that Certified Modders are "good at what they do" and "everyone else is not".

Kekvit, that is not the point actually. This aims in reducing the number of threads generated and the noise they produce in that forum. On the other hand modders are usually silent people, the less they talk the more they produce, this will actually help them go up the Forum hierarchy with out posting a zillion posts.

"Certified Modders" can be people that actually have released a "working" mod or they are working a lot on a future mod. the title refers to teams also.

On the other hand some Elitism might actually do good. It will drive people to produce something for the community and work on to make it better.

Duke John
03-19-2004, 09:38
I think it's a bad idea. My first post was about my first new unitgraphic, the Uruk-Hai. There are numerous other modders who work silently before they post something in the Dungeon.

What if a normal member gets a brilliant idea, but since he isn't able to post in Edit3 he will won't bother anymore. I would hate this system if that would keep members from posting suggestions for any of my mods.
Or the occasional pat on the back, which all modders appreciate, would be impossible since the "fans" are not "certified" modders.

It would be like making also "certified players" for the Main Hall, you would have needed to complete a campaign before you can post.

And what about non-certified modders? Would they need to post their mods in the Alchemist Lab? This would mean that the mods are spread over 2 forums. I don't think that this adds alot of clearity which is reason why LoS is reorganising the Dungeon.

komninos
03-19-2004, 10:10
You have a point there. Forget it bad idea ...

Kekvit Irae
03-19-2004, 10:13
We all started out small and worked our way to greater things. I started out by playing the early versions of MedMod, and thinking "Hey, I can do this..." and so KekvitMod was born. Just a simple edit and tweak with the startpos file, then changes in the prod.txt and projectilestats file, and now look at it, two new factions and a lot of new units.
And it never would have happened if I hadnt posted my small ideas to the community.

[DnC]
03-19-2004, 12:53
Citaat[/b] (Count Zimoa of Flanders @ Mar. 18 2004,14:45)]Rosacrux,the Dutch word for Nerd is "Eikel".So that's makes Kom the Opper-Eikel http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif
Never used the word eikel for nerd. Completely different to me. Eikel is better transelated as jerk.

I know of no dutch word for nerd.

Lord Of Storms
03-19-2004, 15:26
Quote[/b] (komninos @ Mar. 18 2004,17:09)]Oh well it is nice to have fun even in an improper thread.
On the other hand what do you expect from a bunch of nerds like us that have selected me as there Opper-Eikel http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

Any way since nobody says anything about the name can we have a number of ideas in some special privileges and rules for that folder?

i.e.
1. That the moderators move mod threads in there only and can't be started in there?
2. A "Certified" Modders class that get the privilege of starting a new thread in there for new mods
Kom,
Are these suggestions you would like to see implemented using the new forum area?
I would not want to start anything that may be perceived as seperating our community,
by establishing a class or rank for modders.
I do not want to give an elitist impression .
That is not what we are trying to achieve
for the most part a more "User Friendly Dungeon"
is the goal here, as it is now patrons that wish to may start Mod devlopment topics in the new forum.
that is the only stipulation, all other topics already have a place.
I am interested in any I deas you all have so keep them coming, and we can work together to make this forum better.
Thanks ...LOS http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
P.S.I will leave this topic open 1 more day to choose the name for our new forum.
Glad to see you guys having a little fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif LOS

Lord Of Storms
03-19-2004, 15:30
Quote[/b] (kekvitirae @ Mar. 18 2004,18:30)]
Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Mar. 18 2004,17:15)]2. What do you mean by "Certified" Modders class? Who will certify what?
I agree. Adding a title and rank to people just because their mods are well known adds a certain level of elitism to the modder community, saying that Certified Modders are "good at what they do" and "everyone else is not".
I want to avoid that at any cost, especially since if it was not for the contributions of a new modder, we would have never figured out the CTD fix for new factions.
I also agree (see post above).
We are trying to make the Dungeon more user friendly that is all.
I do not want a seperate class by any means.
Modders in this community have shown themselves to be helpful to all that come here.
We do not have a Modders only attitude,
and I would not want to perpetuate such a feeling.
Please let us put this notion to rest. thank you...LOS

Lord Of Storms
03-19-2004, 15:36
Quote[/b] (Qilue @ Mar. 18 2004,21:10)]What exactly is the purpose of the new forum? I can't vote unless I know for what I'm supposed to be voting.

The Repositry contains guides and such.
The Alchemists Lab is for modding questions and mod releases.
Is it for released mods or what?
The new forum area is for "Mod develoment threads"
we have many of them as you can see in the new area and some are quite large and some pinned, this took up a good part of our main forum area.
So the idea of the new forum is just for Mod development threads. all pinned for easy continued access.
Current and active threads will remain if a topic is inactive for a time it wii be unpinned.
New mod develpoment topics may be started by anyone who wishes to.
So simply put the new area helps to free up our main forum for general topics, also I will be utilising some of the space for centralising certain tools and topics to help in making of a mod.
making them readily available and easier to find.
LOS

Qilue
03-20-2004, 03:08
That makes sense. Thank-you :)

Lord Of Storms
03-21-2004, 14:48
OK ENGINEERS GUILDis the clear winner
I will notify Tosa asap. thanks for all who participated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif ...LOS