View Full Version : Battle of Silarius in 71BC
ShadesWolf
03-16-2004, 08:32
Quote[/b] ]Episode
River Silarius
Review
Military strategy game in which contestants recreate historical battles, presented by Eddie Mair. The team, with the help of strategy experts, restage the Battle of Silarius in 71BC, when Spartacus's ragtag band of slaves and gladiators took on the Roman army in southern Italy.
Now I understand why we have some of the units http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
So...we'll finally see the various gladiators in action.
You boys in Britain better be taping it so us Yanks can see it as well. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
FuNkY mOnKeY
03-16-2004, 12:04
Yeah, man please tape it for us, so us Aussies can see it because, this, surprisingly is one of the BBC shows they haven't shown in Australia =(
TheLastEuropean
03-16-2004, 16:52
2 episodes being shown - first one is this week - Marathon, Thursday 18th IIRC. Stupid battle to pick imo but there we go. :D
Why is Marathon stupid?
I find it to be a good battle.
Two very different forces facing each other, one bigger, the other sturdier. The tactics for victory are simple for both sides, but will the team realize this? Quite possibly not as Chalons showed us. Thus to the uninitiated Marathon will seem like a rather hard battle when faced with it.
Also, most likely the team can't do what the Athenians did as the engine doesn't calculate much push into the game.
Quote[/b] (TheLastEuropean @ Mar. 16 2004,16:52)]Marathon, Thursday 18th IIRC.
Friday the 19th. My TV guide said it was Marathon as well, but I wouldn't bet on it.
MiniKiller
03-17-2004, 00:48
i want to see these so damn bad.
ShadesWolf
03-26-2004, 07:09
Quote[/b] ]71 BCE: Spartacus started north; some of the Gauls and Germans separated from him and were nearly defeated by Crassus before Spartacus rescued them. The slaves gained one more minor victory against part of Crassus' forces, but they were finally wiped out by Crassus' legions in a major battle in southern Italy, near the headwaters of the Siler river. It is believed that Spartacus died in this battle; there were so many corpses that his body was never found. The historian Appian reports that 6000 slaves were taken prisoner by Crassus and crucified along the Appian Way from Capua to Rome.
As many as 5000 slaves escaped and fled northward, but they were captured by Pompey's army north of Rome as he was marching back from Spain; Pompey subsequently tried to claim the glory of victory from Crassus, although he had not actually participated in any of the battles. The Senate voted Pompey a triumph because of his victory in Spain, but they decreed an ovation (a far less splendid and prestigious parade) for Crassus because his victory had been merely over slaves. There were no political purges or proscriptions after the rebellion was crushed.
Looks like this should be an interesting battle, with loads of troops http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
What time/channel is it on ?
thrashaholic
03-26-2004, 18:38
BBC2, 7:15pm
o_loompah_the_delayer
03-26-2004, 23:43
Didnt get to see marathon, but watched the one today. Hmmm those legions looked really good, reforming lines as necessary. Strange they lost though - whateever happened to the Roman cavalry after they routed the peasants? Nusbacher was also rather subdued....and I actually wasnt too pissed of wiht Eddie Mair http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
lanky316
03-27-2004, 14:44
Nusbacher was way too quiet... I reckon he's planning something big if they get a new series http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Hilarious when the team was moving the army blocks around on the large table ('just like the experts do in the end') 'DIE DIE and then we go there'.
Sir Robin
03-27-2004, 15:20
So which side was the team playing?
Did they win or lose?
The Wizard
03-27-2004, 16:39
Spartacus, and they won. The last two episodes were the only episodes where history was changed
No you are wrong.. All the battles are won by Aryeh Nusbacher. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
Quote[/b] (Cebei @ Mar. 27 2004,09:42)]No you are wrong.. All the battles are won by Aryeh Nusbacher. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
:)
The team won that fight. There were two more armies on the march. One of them would have crushed Spartacus. What was the real thing again? Did Spartacus 'wait' for all three armies to arrive?
Don't forget the history changes were famous generals died :)
The Wizard
03-27-2004, 17:03
Well, as the historians said, almost nil is known about the battle of the river Silarius. At the end of this episode they made an 'educated guess'.
What is known is that Crassus won the battle and Spartacus was killed, which made Crassus so incredibly overconfident that he invaded Parthia and was horribly, horribly defeated by eran-spahbed Suren-Pahlav. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
~Wiz
Leet Eriksson
03-28-2004, 03:59
Crassus personality was pretty arrogant...i read.
Quote[/b] (The Wizard @ Mar. 27 2004,09:39)]Spartacus, and they won. The last two episodes were the only episodes where history was changed
No, most certainly not.
Watling Street
or Mons Graupius (can't remember which one)
Tigranocerta
Qadesh it seems (but it is very hard to determine as the only source for it is the very biased account of Ramses himself)
Marathon
Cannae
I'm certain there is another one, but I can't figure it out.
TonkaToys
03-28-2004, 19:42
Quote[/b] (lanky316 @ Mar. 27 2004,13:44)]Nusbacher was way too quiet... I reckon he's planning something big if they get a new series http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
He nearly returned to his old form when he was berating them for wasting their troops... And as there were two young ladeeez in team I thought he might want to get out his Big Barbarian Balls again.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif
gah. was out celebrating my 20th. Damn you BBC *shakes fist*
Ja'chyra
03-29-2004, 15:35
I too missed it as I was getting myself slightly inebriated with some workmates and forgot to ask the wife to tape ie, does anyone know where I can download it from?
your best bet is to try legiontotalwar.com
GAH
Is battle available yet?
GAH
Quote[/b] (Vanya @ Mar. 29 2004,16:55)]GAH
Is battle available yet?
GAH
GAH
yes.
GAH
Sir Robin
03-30-2004, 01:43
Where?
Aymar de Bois Mauri
03-30-2004, 14:34
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Mar. 28 2004,06:36)]Watling Street
Tigranocerta
Qadesh
Are these vids battles available anywhere? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-huh2.gif
I have 9 so far, but I've been unable to get the first ones... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-sad.gif
I don't know if they are available anywhere anymore, but they minus Qadesh, were available at TWC. So I have them (in a small size) but I can't really help you.
GAH
Vanya sez... Vanya have a good number of ze battles. Vanya could burn them onto DVD and sell them for cost.
But, Vanya sez that might violate copyright rulez. Vanya not want The Man to play "spin the noggin" with Vanya's surrogate head. Vanya is quite fond of the magic marker doodles He has etched into the flaky, sundried grapefruit.
Vanya sez... What channel will American "Total War" show be on? Vanya not know, but Vanya wonders if they will be vid-ed as well like the TC ones.
Vanya sez... Why Org not have moonie "smilie" like LTW (or is it TWC?). Moonie smilie make Vanya laugh. It shakes its booty and looks real groovy.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
GAH
The Battle of Silarus episode is available NOW over at strategyinformer.com
Quote[/b] (Spino @ Mar. 30 2004,19:29)]The Battle of Silarus episode is available NOW over at strategyinformer.com
Just downloaded and watched it. Nusbacher was a bit hard on the team at the end but he did have a point.
Spoiler Alert! Highlight to read. of course on the other hand, they did do what Spartacus failed to do, so there has to be some glory in that.[/QUOTE]
Can somebody give me a link?
Quote[/b] (Scipio @ Mar. 30 2004,20:04)]Can somebody give me a link?
I sent you a Pm scip. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
RisingSun
03-31-2004, 03:16
After viewing the episode, all I have to say is this:
Spoiler Alert! Highlight to read. Phyrric victory, indeed. Though Nus was slightly hard on them, I think.[/QUOTE]
thanx for the link Monk, but these movies are taking for ever About 30 mins for me which might not sound much but the other TC vids where done in seconds http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
I'm kinda having troubles with the downloads http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif they seem to keep timing out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Quote[/b] (Scipio @ Mar. 30 2004,21:45)]I'm kinda having troubles with the downloads http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif they seem to keep timing out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
i don't know. i was able to download the episode just an hour ago. I know that left clicking the link won't do any good, but aside from that i can't really help.
i just went there and tried to download it again, it seemed fine. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
I think I fixed it (forgot to take off my firewall) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Quote[/b] (RisingSun @ Mar. 30 2004,21:16)]After viewing the episode, all I have to say is this:
I agree either way though it was a good fight.
Spoiler Alert! Highlight to read. Either way you look at this, the entire force was doomed. The team defeated Crassus, and they still had a good amount of combat power left over at the end. but the main problem was that they were still doomed. Big picture, Lucullus and Pompey were marching toward their army and would have been on them within the week (as pointed out by Nus or David i forget who). The team was caught in a hopeless last stand; win or lose against crassus, they still faced annihilation. Considering that, I think Nusbacher was way to hard on them. He made it sound like they had a chance of survival against the Roman reinforcements, when they didn't.[/QUOTE]
Aymar de Bois Mauri
03-31-2004, 12:29
Quote[/b] (Spino @ Mar. 30 2004,18:29)]The Battle of Silarus episode is available NOW over at strategyinformer.com
Thanks, Spino http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Aymar de Bois Mauri
03-31-2004, 12:30
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Mar. 30 2004,08:42)]I don't know if they are available anywhere anymore, but they minus Qadesh, were available at TWC. So I have them (in a small size) but I can't really help you.
Thanks anyway http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Sir Robin
03-31-2004, 19:41
I am guessing this episode was actually shot early in the series and he hadn't witnessed how abominable some of those teams were. That is the only reason I can see behind the RMA guy's dumping on the team at the end.
Considering how badly most of the teams did there was no reason for him dumping on them.
A surprisingly fun battle.
"Push them into the river." http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif
Nice to finally see the gladiators in action.
GAH
Vanya kept expecting a fresh army to appear at any moment and stun the peeps. Oh well.
The "plan" was funny...
We didn't get to see typical Aryeh 'cause they admitted that they did not really know how the battle was actually fought. And so, all they could do was "guess". lol
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
Vanya sez... Vanya download last night. Took a whopping 10 minutes (maybe a few seconds shy of 10) for Vanya to get the whole enchilada.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif
GAH
RisingSun
04-01-2004, 02:29
I also have to say that the video was very high quality. That could explain the long DL times.
It was good quality. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif
Ok I won't hide my views, I think people have had time to get it by now. ~:b
As said already Areyh was too hard on them, I felt almost sorry for the poor team. They did the best with what they had. It was an impossible situation.
I do not agree that their plan was bad. It was good. I would most likely have done much the same in a comparable situation in MTW. But the problem was that their plan was too complex for four people who had no experience for it. So they were overambitious.
But in the end it was their plan that gave them victory. Without the plan they would not have enveloped the roman right flank. But perhaps they piled too many troops in there. It really looked like there were units waiting to get into the figth, those could have marched around the fight and attacked the roman left.
They most likely did much better than the proposed tactic Saul and Areyh presented. That would perhaps have been a victory too, but an even more costly one.
I really liked their crush of the roman cavalry. Well done (even if accidental) and I think it had more impact than credited. It took away a good deal of roman initiative and mobility.
A couple of nice things I noticed.
Notice how all troops now both stab and cut with swords. Positive (well I sort of knew this from other battles).
Much less sychonized troops.
When the battlerecreation of the proposed battle ran I saw a gladiator recieve a few hits. The last hit pushed him back in a really nice way, like if he was dased.
Apparently gladiators are tough, but have bad morale, should prove interesting.
It looked like Spartacus was chasing Crassus when the roman army fell apart on the roman right. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
Aymar de Bois Mauri
04-01-2004, 22:34
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ April 01 2004,09:43)]It was good quality. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif
Ok I won't hide my views, I think people have had time to get it by now. ~:b
As said already Areyh was too hard on them, I felt almost sorry for the poor team. They did the best with what they had. It was an impossible situation.
I do not agree that their plan was bad. It was good. I would most likely have done much the same in a comparable situation in MTW. But the problem was that their plan was too complex for four people who had no experience for it. So they were overambitious.
But in the end it was their plan that gave them victory. Without the plan they would not have enveloped the roman right flank. But perhaps they piled too many troops in there. It really looked like there were units waiting to get into the figth, those could have marched around the fight and attacked the roman left.
They most likely did much better than the proposed tactic Saul and Areyh presented. That would perhaps have been a victory too, but an even more costly one.
I really liked their crush of the roman cavalry. Well done (even if accidental) and I think it had more impact than credited. It took away a good deal of roman initiative and mobility.
A couple of nice things I noticed.
Notice how all troops now both stab and cut with swords. Positive (well I sort of knew this from other battles).
Much less sychonized troops.
When the battlerecreation of the proposed battle ran I saw a gladiator recieve a few hits. The last hit pushed him back in a really nice way, like if he was dased.
Apparently gladiators are tough, but have bad morale, should prove interesting.
It looked like Spartacus was chasing Crassus when the roman army fell apart on the roman right. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
Areyh was way out of line with this team. They did alright for their inexperience and although some mistakes could have been corrected, they reacted well. Not like the other teams. In fact, I think they did better than any of the ones I've seen so far (10 battles). They were lucky with the Roman cavalry though.
Their plan was quite a lot better than Areyh and Saul's. Like you said, it would probably be more costly due to the frontal attack climbing up the terrain.
I would probably use a somewhhat similar plan to the one they used. However, with some differences in troop types on the flanks and using skirmishers sooner. Never get some of the troops as far as they did. It spoiled a possible early left flank crush, that would allow the right flank to be supported sooner. But I'm babling... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rolleyes.gif
Well, I would have used my ranged units defensively. The Thracians staying home and not going with the flankers. Their javelins could have been devastating to the advancing Romans. And I would most likely have kept the 'legionaries' home too, but sent the cavalry instead.
Speed and likeliness to keep fresh would be my priorities. Also I would keep a little closer to the fighting. But basically an entirely sound plan.
But I still like the Raphia and Gaugamela teams more, especially the Gaugamela team (almost total copy of Alexander).
Aymar de Bois Mauri
04-03-2004, 13:22
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ April 02 2004,18:41)]But I still like the Raphia and Gaugamela teams more, especially the Gaugamela team (almost total copy of Alexander).
Gaugamela? I don't agree. They were well organized (a consequence of their experience in war-gamming), but lost their archers and cavalry due to negligence. Also charging Alexander (and getting him killed in the process) right against the bulk of the Persian army, unsoported by the phalanx, is not my idea of a good plan...
Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 03 2004,06:22)]Gaugamela? I don't agree. They were well organized (a consequence of their experience in war-gamming), but lost their archers and cavalry due to negligence. Also charging Alexander (and getting him killed in the process) right against the bulk of the Persian army, unsoported by the phalanx, is not my idea of a good plan...
And this team managed to get their ranged units cut up and had the peasants beat up as well with little reaction. They saw it but didn't do much about it. I think that equals out the left flank of Gaugamela.
The reason for Alexander's death is quite true their usage of him, but remember that they were almost urged to do that. They thought that that was how it was supposed to be done. The charge of the cavalry was supposed to have been supported right away by the infantry, but the resulting split was caused by their inexperience. They were simply not as fast as they were supposed to have been to carry it out. Much like this team and their flanking troops. The teams did what they should but were a little overpowered by the need of attention from other areas.
Aymar de Bois Mauri
04-03-2004, 18:01
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ April 03 2004,10:15)]
Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 03 2004,06:22)]Gaugamela? I don't agree. They were well organized (a consequence of their experience in war-gamming), but lost their archers and cavalry due to negligence. Also charging Alexander (and getting him killed in the process) right against the bulk of the Persian army, unsoported by the phalanx, is not my idea of a good plan...
And this team managed to get their ranged units cut up and had the peasants beat up as well with little reaction. They saw it but didn't do much about it. I think that equals out the left flank of Gaugamela.
Yes, they didn't do anything. I agree. What I'm saying is that none of the teams has a definite edge on the other.
Quote[/b] ]The reason for Alexander's death is quite true their usage of him, but remember that they were almost urged to do that. They thought that that was how it was supposed to be done. The charge of the cavalry was supposed to have been supported right away by the infantry, but the resulting split was caused by their inexperience. They were simply not as fast as they were supposed to have been to carry it out. Much like this team and their flanking troops. The teams did what they should but were a little overpowered by the need of attention from other areas.
I agree. They were both paralised when the enemy armies started moving. Consequently, they rushed certain parts of their attacks and neglected others...
Ok good.
I like the Gaugamela over Silarus for a simple reason. The Silarus team opted for a solution I would have picked as well, nothing fancy and that. But the Gaugamela opted for a solution I would not have done. In that situation I would most likely have gone head on with the infantry and fought the enemy cavalry with my cavalry. The team did better with their plan than I would. They were more daring and saw through the enemy better than I would have done (ok I knew what I was supposed to have done but in a similar situation in MTW I would have done like I said).
Aymar de Bois Mauri
04-03-2004, 20:59
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ April 03 2004,13:48)]Ok good.
I like the Gaugamela over Silarus for a simple reason. The Silarus team opted for a solution I would have picked as well, nothing fancy and that. But the Gaugamela opted for a solution I would not have done. In that situation I would most likely have gone head on with the infantry and fought the enemy cavalry with my cavalry. The team did better with their plan than I would. They were more daring and saw through the enemy better than I would have done (ok I knew what I was supposed to have done but in a similar situation in MTW I would have done like I said).
Well, curiously, I would have made something a little different too. My army would fall to the left, keeping close. Phalanx in front, light cavalry on right (skirmishing), hoplites on the left, protecting the archers and javelinmen, heavy cavalry ready to envelop the enemy on the outmost left.
After a little bombardment by skirmishers, I would try to force the enemy's right flank, while keeping my left a little out of range, turning the army a little. Then enemy's left would be enveloped and destroyed. The freed phalanxes would press slightly lateraly, while the heavy cavalry would get Darius. But I'm just babling... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rolleyes.gif
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