Hi, everyone. I said that I was going to start a thread about the provincial research for the Medmod campaign texts, and here is finally is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
I have been getting sporatic emails, but let me list who I have down for each area of the map, in case there is any confusion, and to show the areas that are not being looked at right now, too.
Aymar de Bois Mauri -Iberia.
If you and your Muslim research group would like to send in changes you think need to be made to the North African and/or Asian provinces, as I explained in my email, I would certainly welcome your thoughts.
Isopostolos and Russ Mitchell - Balkans. I know the last week or so has been hectic, but I still have you guys down for this area.
Eastside Character - Central Europe. The same general areas covered by the factions you did earlier.
No one is covering Germany as of now, so if you would like to look over that area as well, I would appreciate it.
Sicilian Vespers - Italy. I want you to do the Alpine passes provinces bordering Italy as well, from Carniola to Savoy.
PseRamesses- Scandinavia.
As you can see, no one is working on France or the British Isles at the moment. No map changes were made to Great Britain, but I have made a lot of previous changes for the mod that may need to be looked at anew, and I am sure there are things, like trade goods, that someone more familiar with these regions could help me out with, since the way they are set up now is simply for gameplay reasons, and not historical accuracy.
Finally, my emails to Quokka keep getting bounced back, so if you see this, Ron, please get in touch with me and let me know how things are for you.
Myself, I made some updates to the first posts of the first map thread, and I have talked about all the changes that were made to the final map, and some of the reasons why. The final map shows up in that initial post, so now you can see the map and a list of all the changes right there together.
I have continued to research what needs to be done for the mod, and I am making lists and such of where everything is that needs to be changed or made for all the new things in the mod.
I will check in here each day, and I'll try and continue to answer emails, but other than that I plan to disappear into the texts soon, and I don't know when I'll re-surface.
(If you never hear from me again, you'll know it all eventually drove me mad and that I am in a "special place" that doesn't allow internet access.) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
PseRamesses
03-18-2004, 14:48
Quote[/b] (WesW @ Mar. 18 2004,00:49)]I will check in here each day, and I'll try and continue to answer emails, but other than that I plan to disappear into the texts soon, and I don't know when I'll re-surface.
(If you never hear from me again, you'll know it all eventually drove me mad and that I am in a "special place" that doesn't allow internet access.) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
Don´t worry Wes we´ll bring the TNT and bust you out of that place http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_charge.gif
I will prepare one big document concerning unit info, unit names/roster, general/leader/princess names, trigger years, geographic information including trade, agriculture, border and terrain, AND if needed unit information artwork, unit animation bifs, extra music. In short, I will send one big compact "Turkic faction dossier". For the sake of convenience and proper study, I wont post the infos in different threads. And by Turkic geography, I mean Asia minor, I wont research Egyptian geography, which is undertaken by the Muslim group.
Quote[/b] (cutepuppy @ Mar. 18 2004,08:08)]Hi Wes,
Let me first ask you some questions: what do you exactly expect with that provincial research? Is it just about trade goods and farm income or are other things involved?
Do we just have to do the research and mail you the results or do we have to edit the appropriate files?
If it isn't too complicated I am prepared too work on France and/or Germany.
I understand the confusion. When I started the thread, I forgot to include what I had told you guys was going to be the initial post, so I have now pasted it below.
First, let me say that this all of this deals with different sections of the campaign texts, which are in the Total War\Medieval - Total War\campmap\startpos directory. These files contain all the info and stats needed to set up the Early, High and Late campaigns.
Basically, they contain all the statistics and characteristics of all the provinces and factions that appear in the campaign. So, as you can imagine, they are huge files, and that is why I need so much help with them.
The current version of the file we are using has almost 5000 lines, and this number will growing by several hundreds before it's ready.
FYI, I will work until I get this campaign working, and then I will copy most of the data to the other two campaign files, since most of it doesn't change. Then I'll start working on the parts that are different until I get them working. Then I'll release it as a beta, so we can start playtesting, and I'll continue to work on many things, since a lot of things like faction shields and such will simply be placeholders for the new factions. I hope that all you guys will be with me in this through to the end.
I have mailed copies of the campaign text that I want everyone to use to the guys I listed in the initial post. It's a copy of the MM_LATE text that I have spent a lot of time on, such as expanding notes and ordering columns so that it's easier to make sense of it all, even if it's your first time fooling with these large texts.
I can mail copies to whomever wants to handle parts of the map not covered by any of those guys. If you like to assist one of the guys above, please contact him directly so that you can share the same version of the file.
Below I have given you the approximate line numbers for the 3 sections that you will be working with, so you don't have to worry about anything not in those sections of the file.
First, I want you to create a new, plain text file, named after the region you are working on, such as the Balkans.
Then, go to each of the three sections of the campaign text that you'll be working on, and copy onto this text file all of the present entries for the provinces that you or your group is handling.
This way, you can enter the factual stuff in faster, and also be able to see the stats for your entire area of the map for when you have to make personal judgments about what values to enter.
You don't need to worry about their order, but do try to have your text editor set to show tabs and spaces when you work, so you can keep all the columns lined up and such.
When you are finished with your provinces in these 3 sections, simply attach the file to an email and send it to me.
There are a lot of notes at the start of the various sections which should explain what is needed quite well. If you do get confused, however, you can always just email me or post here. Also, remember that this is just for the beta, and that you can always just enter a placeholder, and note it for me when you turn in your work.
BTW, here is a list of the new, removed and re-named provinces, pasted from the map thread. These provinces will need the most modifications, so I would recomend that you write down the ones are in your region at the top of your text file.
--------------------------------------------------------
Removed (9): Finland, Brandenburg, Switzerland, Volga-Bulgaria, Pereyaslavl, Malta, Rhodes, the Sinai and Navarre.
Added (17):
Murcia, New Castile, Al-Gharb
Poitou, Auverge, Dauphine,
Savoy, Verona, Apulia,
Carniola, Pannonia, Epirus, Macedonia,
Mazovia, Ruthenia, Levedia and Gotland
This adds up to a net increase of 8, which is what we have to work with. In addition,
Re-named (8):
Naples to Kingdom of Naples
Greece to Achaea
Castile to Old Castile
Toulouse to Languedoc
Genoa to Liguria
Milan to Lombardy
Carpathia to Transylvania
Hungary to TransDanubia
--------------------------------------------------------
1)The section on Region Goods and resources is located around line 1800.
Actually, this is an optional section, so you don't have to even enter anything here. However, I hope that you can use your historical knowledge about your area to give your provinces historically accurate entries. Remmember, though, that not every province has to have an entry, so if you don't know of anything for a region, don't enter anything.
Also, don't worry about whether or not the trade item you have in mind is listed here, nor about the value given to current trade items. If you enter a new trade good, list your proposed value with it. If the current value given to an existing good is inaccurate in your opinion, simply enter the present value, followed by your suggested value in parentheses, and an explanation for the change.
Also, if trade goods and/or their values changed over the course of the three campaigns, try and note that, or if the changes are substantial for a given province, make separate lists for it for each campaign, if you like.
2)The section on Region Governor Titles is around line 2300.
If you disagree with the current title, simply note it like the trade goods, and for new provinces, either use your historical knowledge to select a title, or just type in opening and closing quotation marks, and the game will automatically assign it the title of Duke or Emir. (I think this decision is based upon the province's culture, but I'm not sure.)
For the bonuses to loyalty, piety, etc., only give a bonus for the non-loyalty attributes if you have a specific reason.
Also, do not worry with the warcraft attribute, as I take care of those personally.
2)The final section that you'll be working on is the Region Attributes section, circa line 1700.
I have pasted in the notes for this section, along with the first couple of provincial entries, at the end of this post, since this is the most confusing section. The columns will probably not stay in order, so study your MM_LATE file to figure out what needs to be done, and use the paste here to point out questions you may have.
I have also given a detailed example below of how to make the judjment calls in this section.
For example, if you were handling the Italian area, you would find and gather all the existing entries for the Italian provinces, in each of the three sections.
Then you would have to delete Malta's entries, re-name Naples, Genoa and Milan for all the sections, and make entirely new entries for Savoy, Verona and Apulia in each section.
The first thing to remember is that many of the entries that have to be made are relatively meaningless. If you notice that every province in your group has the same value for an attribute, feel sure that you need to enter that same value where needed.
Here, I am talking about Rebelliousness (0), mapgroup (-1)and castlename (same as province name). BTW, I know that Rebelliousness is not meaningless, but this will be decided after playtesting begins.
You would use your factual knowledge of the provinces to select the correct culture, terrain, architechture and vista. (I believe that the vista is only the battlemap's background.)
Then you would look at the group as a whole, and use your historical knowledge and judgment as to what income values to give each province. Use the values for regions that have been changed the least as a guide. For the Italian region, Rome, the Papal States and Tuscany have been changed the least.
For example of how to approach this for a relatively complex province, let's look at Venice. It currently has one of the highest incomes in the game, much higher than Lombardy, for instance, who would appear to have about the same basic fertility. So, why the large difference? The difference represents Venice's historical trade revenue.
The way the game allows total blockades with the presense of a single ship is not rational, so Venice is, in effect, given some "un-stoppable" trade revenue in the form of additional land value. This extra revenue may also be given to inland provinces which lie along historical trade routes.
How do you make such judgments for each province? Well, this is where your historical knowledge comes into play. You know much more historically about your particular regions than I do, hopefully enough to properly set the land values, trade items and resources for them.
The same goes for the attributes bestowed by provincial titles, as I covered earlier.
And remember, from what Russ has been telling me, resources, trade routes and even soil fertility changed a lot in some places over the course of the three campaigns, so include that if you have knowledge of it.
So, Cutepuppy, if you still want to join in, email me and tell me which area you would like to cover, and I'll send you the text file and any other info I think you might need.
//========================================
//Region Attributes
//The special characteristics for a region
//========================================
//NOTES:
// region id = code reference for this region
// name = name of region ( pointer to string in "Names.txt" )
// rebellious = difficulty in pacifying the population
// culture = culture of this region ( taken into account for rebellions, faith, happiness, etc )
// terrain = Battlemap terrain attribute ( can be LUSH, ARID or ROCK_DESERT )
// architechture = battlemap building styles ( can be AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN, AT_SOUTHERN_EUROPEAN, AT_EASTERN_EUROPEAN or AT_ISLAMIC )
// mapgroup = which group of maps this region looks up when a castle map is called for. values are from 0 -> ?. -1 specifies a random group.
// income = the income the owner of this region gets every year from un-augmented harvests.
// castle_name = name of the castle in this region ( pointer to string in "Names.txt" )
// region attributes = the type of map a battle would be fought on should it occur in this region:
// location - can be INLAND or COAST
// vista - can be FLAT, PLAINS, HILLY, or MOUNTAIN
//region id NAME REBELLIOUS CULTURE TERRAIN ARCHITECHTURE MAPGROUP INCOME CASTLE NAME LOCATION VISTA VICTORY CONDITION
SetAttributes:: ID_AFRICA "Africa" 0 PAGAN_CULTURE ROCK_DESERT AT_ISLAMIC -1 0 "Africa Castle_xzy" INLAND FLAT NO_RIVER FALSE
SetAttributes:: ID_ALGERIA "Algeria" 0 MUSLIM_CULTURE ARID AT_ISLAMIC -1 450 "Algeria Castle_xzy" INLAND HILLY NO_RIVER TRUE
PseRamesses
03-25-2004, 13:48
Posted this info tho Wes today but want you all to read through it and make alterations, suggestions etc before he grinds it into the txt-file. Thanks
Govenor´s titles;
1. SWE: "Jarl" +2accumen +2 loyalty
2. NOR: ”Jarl” +1 +1 +1 dread
3: DEN: ”Jarl” +1 +1 +1 piety
4: GOT: "Earl" +1 +1
Resources;
1. SWE: Iron
2. NOR: none
3. DEN: none
4. GOT: none
Tradable goods;
1. SWE: Furs, wood (maybee Antlerwork from VI)
2. NOR: Fish**, (maybee Walrustusks and Whalebone from VI)
3. DEN: Grain
4. GOT: Wool, (glassware).
Port- and castle coordinates (early, late and high)***;
1.SWE: Stockholm/ Stockholm
2. NOR: Bjorgvin/ Oslo
3. DEN: (same as in the game)
4. GOT: Visby/ Visby
Architechture:
1. SWE: Dark Age European arcitechture
2. NOR: DAEa
3. DEN: DAEa
4. GOT: DAEa
Terrain:
1. SWE: Dark Age Lush (spruce, pine etc)
2. NOR: Lush (leaf trees)
3. DEN: Lush
4. GOT: Lush
Fertility****;
1. SWE: 290
2. NOR: 85
3. DEN: 365
4. GOT: 175
* I´m not quite finished with this one since some of the titles become obsolete and are replaced by others during the time-frame of the game and the ones within the ”mark” are to modern I think.
** Fish was important in medieval times. Actually I think Fish should be removed from other
places around the north sea, because fish was the single reason the Hanseatic Leage settled with so many traders and industries in Bjorgvin (Bergen). Half the town was actually german around 1200. As Norway don't have much farmland, having a rather unique tradegood would make Norway a bit more attractive economicly. Yes there were other regions for fishing too, but as far as I know Norway was pretty unique in the amount exported. My impression is that in other places it was mostly for local markets and fresh-of-the-sea consumption, but please don't shoot me if I'm wrong on this The Hanseatic leage ran a almost industry like production of salted cod and herring, which didn't rot under this treatment, for export to Europa. Now
why didn't the Hanseatics settle somewhere else, more close to central Europe? There was simply no other place with the cod resources as the northern coast of Norway. It was fished and dried there, then salted and transported to Bjorgvin. This is also a major reason why Bjorgvin was the capitol, because of all the international activity this was the natural seat
of the King.
*** The problem with port & castle coordinates are:
In Sweden a castle on the island of Visingsö in the long Vättern lake was the main powerhouse since the two main competing families took turns in occupying this a kings. This lasted through early game timeframe until Birger Jarl in mid 13th centurty, around 1252 AD, founded Stockholm into the city and powerbase it became during his reign as Jarl. As for the port before Birger Jarl and Stockholm several options are at hand but how ever I toss and turn this problem I can´t make up my mind.
The ultimate would be when you start a game in early the castle should be on Visingsö and the port around the Kalmar area on the east coast. When the game hits 1250 the c&p coordinates should go to Stockholm instead. But that is not doable is it? Same problem for Norway since Bjorgvin (Bergen) was capitol from 1100-1299 so the p&c coordinates is there until castle should change to Oslo in 1300. Same problem with Denmark since I don´t recall Köpenhamn (Copenhagen) being capitol when the game begins in1087 AD.
Suggestions if theese coordinates can´t change within the game is a compomize:
Sweden: port and castle in Stockholm.
Denmark: (port and castle as it is in the game right now)
Norway: port in Bjorgvin and castle in Oslo
**** I swapped fertility between Sweden and Denmark since they were a far bigger grain producer than Sweden that was really poor and undeveloped in comparasion. And as you may have read on many topics and threads at the forum everyone is going for Sweden which is simply not historically correct.
On only two occasion, beside Denmark, has a foreign power shown an interest and that was the Russians that burnt and sacked their way through Finland and down to Sundsvall in the 17th century (I think) before getting a peace agreement and the other time was England who was planning an invasion during Karl XII´s reign in the 18th century. I don´t comprehend how this will affect playing the Swedes but starting out with Swe and Got gives them 465 farming value and the Danish gets 450 which is actually a bit low so I recommend increasing farm value of Denmark or giving Norway an exclusive fish-monopoly as mentioned under *.
As for Gotland it has a high fertility but since I don´t have the whole game-picture I awarded it a modest value but granted the title holder Earl of Gotland an extra accumen instead.
Hi, Pat
As you know, I read over your file and replied last night, and I was just coming here is paste your work in as a prime example of what I want.
What I told Patrick, and now everyone else, is that all of these types of entries can change from one campaign to the next.
The list that Sal (Sicilian Vespers) sent in for the Sicilian office titles changed from one era to the next, reflecting how the ownership of the faction changed through the Medieval Age. I've pasted it below so you can see exactly what he did.
Let me make one note about languages.
Things that appear on a map, like province names, provincial governorship titles, rivers, mountains, cities (including capitals and/or castles); these things need to be written in their English spelling.
Otoh, things that are faction-specific, like Office Titles, can be written in their native language, though I may regret saying that if Eastside comes back with some Polish words that look like someone just threw a bunch of letters up into the air, and however they landed was the way the words were spelt. ;)
My Encarta world map has all the Polish political districts spelt in Polish, and everytime I try to make them out, I end up looking like that old picture of a puppy with his cocked to the side, listening to the RCA record player. No offense intended.
Early Sicilian Faction Offices:
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN royal_palace "Ammiratus Ammiratorum" +2 +2 0 0 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN constables_palace "Capitanus Super Stolium Terrae" +2 0 0 +2 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN marshals_palace "Ammiratus of the Royal Army" +2 0 0 +2 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN chancellery "Ammiratus of the Royal Duana" +3 +1 0 +1 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN admiralty "Ammiratus of the Royal Fleet" +1 0 0 +2 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN cathedral "Archbishop of Palermo" 0 +2 0 0 +3 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN cathedral "Archbishop of Monreale" 0 +2 0 0 +3 0 0
High Sicilian Faction Offices:
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN royal_palace "Ammiratus Ammiratorum" +2 +2 0 0 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN constables_palace "Capitanus Super Stolium Terrae" +2 0 0 +2 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN marshals_palace "Ammiratus of the Royal Army" +2 0 0 +2 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN chancellery "Ammiratus of the Royal Duana" +3 +1 0 +1 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN admiralty "Ammiratus of the Royal Fleet" +1 0 0 +2 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN cathedral "Archbishop of Palermo" 0 +2 0 0 +3 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN cathedral "Archbishop of Monreale" 0 +2 0 0 +3 0 0
Late Sicilian Faction Offices:
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN royal_palace "Grand Seneschal of Sicily" +2 +2 0 0 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN royal_palace "Vicar General of the Catalan Company" +2 +2 0 0 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN constables_palace "Grand Constable of Sicily" +2 0 0 +2 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN marshals_palace "Grand Marshal of Sicily" +2 0 0 +2 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN chancellery "Grand Chancellor of Sicily" +3 +1 0 +1 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN admiralty "Grand Admiral of the Sicilian Fleet" +1 0 0 +2 0 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN cathedral "Archbishop of Palermo" 0 +2 0 0 +3 0 0
AddOffice:: FN_SICILIAN cathedral "Archbishop of Monreale" 0 +2 0 0 +3 0 0
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.