Inbred princes and generals

[Tricky Lady]

I just read a topic on farming vices & virtues (link (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=16297)), and that made me think about something that happens a lot in some of my last games.

I've been playing the Turkish and the Byzantines lately, and all the time I get infested with inbred princes or generals with an odd number of toes. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif Seems to happen mostly in the third generation (sons of my second kings, and generals serving under him). With the Turkish it already happened in the first generations of princes & generals.

My question is: what triggers these vices?

In my Byzantine campaign I've kept track of some events, and I found that I married, say King I, to a German princess, and his oldest son, the new King, to another German princess. ...And then the Odd number of Toes princes appeared on the stage... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Since then almost every prince had this vice?
Could it have been that? Or was it just bad luck?

[lancelot]

hello tricky lady (are you a lady? I only ask coz you dont get many TW laydees but the more the merrier I say)

To answer your question, I 'think' the general concensus of opinion (and my opinion) on the hereditary vices problem is that they are for the most part more or less random.

EG-I have had quality emperor's produce naff heirs and I read posts where other players have made a point of trying to cause inbread vices and the like (by making heirs marry sisters etc etc) only to get no vices such as odd toes...

So, random and they usually go after a generation or two.


hope that helps.

[mercian billman]

Maybe it's just bad luck. I find that if you get your kings and heirs married you can avoid the problem. I still get the inbread vice on occasion though. Try to get them married when their princes even if their not going to be the king.

[Ludens]

Inbred vices seem to develop when you are getting very successful. When you conquer 60% of the map, the game suddenly triggers several hidden factors to make conquering the rest of the map more difficult. This includes more revolts and a higher vice-accumulation rate for your generals.
These vices seem just a way to make sure that you don't create six 8 star generals to steamroller over the map. Several of them will receive a set of nasty vices if you try. This will get even worse if you reach the 60% point.

According to the developers, the game has not been programmed to give more inbred vices to royal lines which do not marry princesses from other countries. I do not know if this happens when you marry your own princesses to their brothers. If you do marry a princess to someone of royal blood (so not only princess, but also the generals of the royal blood), you get an incest vice which lowers piety.

[Malcolm Big Head]

I think secret incest is usually the result of the prince and princess hook up. Accidentally dropped one on her brother and had to see what would happen.

[VikingHorde]

I think having a active king makes better heirs. High influens allso give good heirs.

[katank]

active campaigning king definitely gives good heirs and influence is by far the most important factor as max influence kings almost always give me the +2 command over the king that I seek.

for the incest part, I find it semi random and do seem like game's way to punish you for being successful.

I hate it when I get some secret incest or odd number of toes like 30 years after the prince matures.

further stuff on the AI wanting to moderate things by being hard on the winners and easy on losers, I always win naval battles when autocalcing and losing badly on land maps.
(see naval imbalance thread for cheesy tactic on beating superior navies)