F o g

Is there any real tactical use of fog?

Personally, I hate it. I don't think it offers any real tactical advantage. It is just a barrier that doesn't let you have a clear battle...some say that fog maybe useful for attackers but I don't agree. I've attacked many times in fog and the fact I can't see where and how the defender is set up surely doesn't help me. Same for the defender. Moreover units seem to not be affected by fog...guns still fire...archers still hit when they are close and have a clear view...and there are no morale bonuses or penalties in fog as far as I know. Some people may think that fog is challenging because one must scout a lot with fast units such as cavalry. True, but I don't find anything exciting in moving my CA forwards in a dark world where I may find 5 muskets honour 4 who can reduce my CA to nothing in milliseconds. I may find a lonely nice monk honour 4 too...but it is kinda improbable.

Can anyone enlighten me on how (if) fog is of ANY use apart from annoying me and many other players to death? Thanks http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Tera.

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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[This message has been edited by Terazawa Tokugawa (edited 04-24-2002).]

[Magyar Khan]

since units dont have major responces of their own fog is silly and adds nothing special.
fog could be usefull when a player controls 1 units and we play 30 vs 30 units (players)

but still its nicer to watch whats going on

btw fog is my worst enemy

[Papewaio]

I find fog acts like trees. Enemies will walk right past you at the edge of sight and not react unless you attack or they come close enough.

Since I play SP a lot it is great for ambushes by the defender. Or just out flanking the static defender.

Apart from that to view the entire battlefield it means spreading out onces forces... as I play with timer on it is one of the ways the AI has of beating me by going benny hill or picking off my flanks... so I have to have a balanced army with mobile elements not just Nag infantry.

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Victory First, Battle Last

[Gothmog]

In single player, this is very helpful. It allows you to attack missile-heavy defenders without sustaining too much dammage from ranged weapon.


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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
http://members.fortunecity.com/argus1000eyes/fighter.gif

[Kas]

Fog is always scary...but it can be handy now and then(mostly as attacker).

And above all...fog can be big fun...on large hilly maps...armies marching past eachother several times searching for eachother...allies asking "Uhh..where are you...and where am I?". Total chaos sometimes.

Not very tactical perhaps...but BIG fun!

Kas...loves fog!


[This message has been edited by kaneyashi (edited 04-24-2002).]

[KukriKhan]

I like fog in SP when I defend, for the reasons Pape cited.

In the real (modern) world, it's been quite handy on offense to mitigate enemy air power; but that advantage is quickly being lost with weapons systems that can "see" through fog.

In MP, I think it's a waste of time: the ignorance of what your enemy has (on both sides) makes it a crap-shoot, not a test of tactics.

[Tac]

if facing missile units.. go for fog. they cant shoot what they cant see.

If defending and you have missile units .. use them to set up ambushes. Putting 1 missile unit on the valley below and your other 5 on the hills above is a great way to make your enemy chase you into a death trap.

Fog is cavalry's best friend.

Fog makes guns look like peashooters.

Fog and trees dont mix. Ive lost men when they bumped into a tree and impaled themselves on some branch. Stupid morons http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[Cheetah]

On 1v1 it is really just annoying, but on 4v4 it can be a great help for the attacker.

Here is an example: we were attacking Mimakasa (kinda hilly map) on 4v4. AMP was on the front left, I was on the right. There was a thick fog. Lead by AMP the others trippled the unfortunate left wing defender while my brave samurai were left facing the other 3 defenders (well, the centre guy left a few CA with me). The center defender joined in the battle helping the left wing defender, but the other two chaps were just shouting thrue the fog: "CMON ATTACK US! WHAT ARE U WAITING FOR?" etc. Finally, they realised what happened, attacked me, but then it was tooooo late http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

I like fog in SP too...the AI is dumb, so I don't have any fears.

But in MP vs good player/s getting the most out of fog is generally just by chance. It is my worst enemy because not clear battles do not require skill imo...its just like a river or castle - very few tactics involved. Bah.

I WANT TO DISABLE FOG! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[theforce]

Fog is nice.
You can do lots of things with it. Make an attack and the other won't see you until the last moment. Devide your cavalry sending from a sistand rout behind someone for them to rout(works like a charm with cav).
In addition fog makes ninja units almost invinsible even while moving. In addition it reduces accuracy right?

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.

[tootee]

I love fog cos I can literally walk up to Magy's horse and kick its arse without Magy ever knowing what hap http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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[Vanya]

Fog is nice.

Ninjas in fog are *NICE*.

Fog is good for attackers in that they can conceal their attack for longer. Of course, as it turns out, the defender can still see the silouettes of your men in the distance in all but the heaviest fog.

So... fog only really works when there are trees and other natural obstacles you can use in addition to the fog itself.

But, since many hate fog, you can also play mind tricks on defenders. IE, you can wait them out while you position ninjas behind them. Then, when they grow impatient, attack and they will be confused.

GAH!

Fog is nice.

Playing in fog reminds me of "The Fog". I feel like the demonic ghosts emerging from the clouds to claim the golden cross...

[Puzz3D]

I think fog is an advantage for attacking if the camera is limited. It will shield the attacker's movements, and the defender's may realize too late that they are flanked in force. It helps a lot if you know the map. I think it adds a sense of suspense to a battle.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[Nelson]

Fog can empower the weak and encumber the mighty.

Yes Yuuki, I do agree - if there is fog on totomi and I am attacking it can be an advantage to me since I know Totomi very well.

However when I play an unknown map with fog, I don't have fun coz its mostly a matter of "chance" there.

Tera.

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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[FasT]

Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
I think fog is an advantage for attacking if the camera is limited. It will shield the attacker's movements, and the defender's may realize too late that they are flanked in force. It helps a lot if you know the map. I think it adds a sense of suspense to a battle.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~[/QUOTE]But also the defender can attack and before u know it, he is behind u or on ur flank comin at u with full force http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
But also u must remember that alot of the vets hate fog,its there worst nitemare.So take that in mind.
I think also in 4v4 it would be chaos but fun http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif



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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/markuk/t.gif/Fast.gif
Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)
FastCub

[Puzz3D]

It increases the element of chance, and that's why vets don't like it. When you play friendlies, it doesn't matter if you loose, and the sense of uncertainty that fog gives is a nice variation to "fine day". Communication with your allies becomes even more important in fog or heavy rain since you usually cannot see what they are doing. It's not something I would always want to play under.

MizuYuuki ~~~

True Yuuki...most times I do play to win not to have fun, but that is the hard truth when playing a game a long time, and its not something bad or evil anyways http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

But fog... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif, at least in heavy rain you know guns and archers won't do much damage while in fog there is no real tactical unit effect...more of physcological effect on the player. And since I lack some good brains it's kinda difficult for me http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Heh, Ter.

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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[LordTed]

What advantages I get from fog is only over new players, as they are a bit less observant, so I find you would rarely get away with using a unit to sneak about in the fog.

[FasT]

Bah! i cant see this thread anymore http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif
The mist is thickining, where am i http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
Fasts army is lost and running for their lives again.Bah! sees Krast! in distance with 12 guns BAH! seeks shelter behind them, until mist clears http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[pdoan8]

In SP, fog helps the defender. I love defending in a foggy day. If I am on attack, I rather attack in a rainy day than a foggy and snowy day.

I have never seen rainy or snowy days in Multi-game. I guess because guns don't work well in rainy and snowy days.


[This message has been edited by pdoan8 (edited 04-25-2002).]

[BarryNoDachi]

i played in a 3v3 the other day with fast fury dump.... you guessed it! it was in fog http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif it was a good battle but i didn't know what was going on over the other side just makes you lose your barings a little bit http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif a whole army can just come out the blue and its all over.

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)

[Kas]

Other skills become important..communication

MSN talk or Roger Wilco come in handy.

Just a thought...

Kas http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

I tried to use them once...game seemed to lag more and drops increased accordingly...

I liked voice communication but ehey, gotta wait for DSL heh..

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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[theforce]

As you are gonna find out Tera broadband ain't fast in our regions. You shall see when you get it.

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.

[Vanya]

Quote Originally posted by theforce:
As you are gonna find out Tera broadband ain't fast in our regions. You shall see when you get it.

[/QUOTE]

You mean youz in Europa can't clock the 1.8-3 MBps cable speeds I sometimes measure here in the US?!?

GAH!

What about satelite? You can get a microwave T1... all you need is to point the dish at a receiver... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[FasT]

Quote Originally posted by BarryNoDachi:
i played in a 3v3 the other day with fast fury dump.... you guessed it! it was in fog http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif it was a good battle but i didn't know what was going on over the other side just makes you lose your barings a little bit http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif a whole army can just come out the blue and its all over.

[/QUOTE]Yes i remember that 1 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif LOL did u know i had 3 CA and 2 NC behind ur main force? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gifWell they came to late as i was about to attack u 2 rushed me http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gifOr well i didnt see that 1 comin http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[Puzz3D]

Right FasT. Managing cav far away is a big problem in fog because you have to leave your main force and hope they don't come under attack while you're off with your cav. When you go back to your main force, your cav is at risk.

MizuYuuki ~~~

[BarryNoDachi]

yeah i saw it in the background i told all my allies and thats y i left 2 ys spread out facing my rear when i attacked http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif but nearly worked would of been a classic http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)

[Major Robert Dump]

I think fog is fun but its awful hard to attack if your enemy has an even slight altitude advantage....in the game Fast was talking about I had 3 gun units 4 deep on a small hill in OBHORSELANDS and they would get off two shots before the advancing army even managed to get one. Those 3 guns routed every gun unit that dared to make a frontal assault.. Fast made a nice move into our rear with his Cav and forced me to make a huge square out of all my spears to protect my center force since I didnt know where he'd hit me. I like Fog, it keeps me on the edge of my seat.

[This message has been edited by Major Robert Dump (edited 04-26-2002).]

[Krasturak]

Gah!

Fog adds a large element of suspense and coordination problems for team play.

It provides concealment for even the largest forces.

So, the battles in fog can be very exciting and require more thinking than clear weather.

Krast likes fog.

Gah!

[Gan Ning]

One who cant use all senses to protect his army and win a battle is not worthy of the title Shogun.

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