Playing Egypt

[MadKow]

Hi, recently i noticed when i play a western faction (on normal, at least) that the right side of the map tends to become light orange as Egypt grows to become the major mega-superpower.
Now i've been around this game and this forum long enough to know that Egypt is not one of the most played factions, doesn't seem to have an exclusive unit that stands out or to build an army around.
So i decided to give it a try. See what makes them so successfully. But i don't want to dive into it without some advice from more experienced players.
Apparently i don't have much to start with in terms of army... Saracen infantry my best bet early on. Then the ever efficient Ghazi... then what?? And then, play aggressive or conservative? I have rich underdeveloped territories to start with...

Any hints on fighting and striving like an Egyptian?

Thank you.

[TheSilverKnight]

Try to rush towards Constantinople while the Byzantines are preoccupied with the west. Once you consolidate your position in Constantinople, head west up Africa and Spain, consolidate your hold there. Then go from Tunisia and Libya to conquer Southern Italy. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[MadKow]

Hehe, sounds easy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

The turks build up their HA and TH fast lets see if i can counter that.

[Doug-Thompson]

Destroy the Turks. Quickly.

[MadKow]

I just used an extremely effective way of dealing with early turks. The archer charge http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif A nice wide line of archers backed by some spears and peasants. Flanks covered by camels and Ghulam BG. Make the whole formation move in block against the enemy. Stop, shoot watch them flee.

I had a fun battle where i attacked the turks in Edessa and the Byzantines tried to jump in too, we were all fighting each other. My arming was facing the turks, while the Byzantine were menacingly on my left flank.

I moved forward, and as i got into shooting range my archers were charged by 2 Biz Inf, units. Well, my two camel units routed the Biz Infantry and the 6 star general with them, with the help of some arrows too.

I could tell there were some skirmishes involving biz vs Turks, so i pressed on. Soon they were all fleeing in front of my line. My camel general became an expert attacker and got killing instinct. Nice. The turks are no more. At least for now.

[katank]

yeah, your starting 6* camel general is awesome and he gets morale boositng vices too so make liberal use of him.

no matter whether I'm playing the byz, eggy, or turks, I always try to secure the regions enclosed by egypt, const, and georgia.

This area includes some very rich lands and only When I own this land do I think about economy. Before this, I always rush militarily and rely on mercs to kill, national army to siege and keep loyalty and ransoms and plunder to keep economy afloat.

massed archers protected by spears is difficult to beat by any AI.

also, make sure you give the governorship of const. or treb to your camel to make him a 8*

good luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

BTW, make good use of nubian spears as they are your line unit.

building silver armored ghazis from const. help them survive longer and kill more.

[Si GeeNa]

Egypt is by far one of the richest factions, with the cheapest line units around.

These advantages mean that you can regularly field armies twice or three times the size of the Turks or Byzzies. Do it and beat them down with the Egyptian Horde

I particularly like the Mameluke HA and Cav. They will be a significant part of your ever improving army.

Nizaris will be useful but they die real fast and are very vulnerable to Archers. Try not to get them to stand toe to toe against the Western forces but use their quicker movement to your advantage.

Din't find too much use for the Abyssinian Guards as Ghazis were much cheaper to maintain. Performed similarly.

Build a navy so that Crusades can't surprise you. You will have fun there so remember to castlellate. Try to assist the Almos and keep them from faltering to the Spanish. This will limit the Crusades severely.

Hope that this help. Egypt has quite alot of play time... The Crusades just keep coming..

[katank]

note nizaris have the one of the highest charge attack ratings of any unit in the game for a total of 13 IIRC.

they can thus be devastating to an enemy flank but their defence is horrible and will drop like flies if attacking frontally.

crusades can rot in bulgaria or something as I usually have Const. and hold it with enormous forces. I've had up to half a dozen crusade markers rotting in bulgaria at a single time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif None dared to take on my famous bedouin camel leading massed spear/archers

[PseRamesses]

Playing the Egyptians is IMO the easiest faction in the game but as always you have to have a strategy how to reach your goals both small and big ones. Since I never play domination, except in VI, some of my advice are maybee not relevant.
You have 6 very rich provinces but a fairly poor military tech-tree so mind what you´re doing and don´t deviate from your plan.

General outlining:
I tend to use Antioch, Tripoli, Palestine and Sinai for building troops up to castle-level then I complement with ship-builders. Arabia is used for agents, jihads and other misc buildings like palace, court etc. Egypt goes for ship-builder and the grand mosque since it is a GA-goal. Meanwhile develop your farmlands once in a while to keep a +2000 fl. net income/ year.

Early military goals:
I´ve never been attacked by the Almohads in Egypt even though they usually won´t accept an alliance early on so concentrate on the Turks because they will attack you sooner or later, it´s just a matter of time. And don´t accept an alliance offer from them that you within 10-20 years will brake youself. However do pursue an alliance with the Byzantines which will prove to be a good ally in smiting the pesky turks.
I usually build one stack containing of 6 archers, 6 nubian spears and 4 camels in all the Turk neighbouring provinces.
From the beginning you have a 6 star general (Al-Afdal Shahinshah, born in 1055 and dies in 1121, very tough and fearsome) use him for the main assault on Syria from Arabia, Palestine and Tripoli. From Antioch you launch a false attack on Edessa. The Turks will face three full army-stacks in Syria and one in Edessa. Chances are that they will withdraw from Edessa and concentrate on defending Syria if they don´t cancel the attack on Edessa thus sparing that stack for later purposes.
At around 1100 AD you´ll get yet another good and fearsome general (Najamuddin Ilghazi of Aleppo, born in 1080) that you now can move in your army-stack in Edessa or to attack it when the turks futile and depleting efforts of sallying Syria fails.
So, you have now secured Syria and Edessa and if all has gone well you should have atleast 3 out of the original 4 stacks left. From here you can either crush the turks utterly by taking their remaining two provinces since it doesn´t increase your amount of border provinces to the Byzantines who should be your next target - aim for Constantinople through Trebizond and you´ve split them into two parts in Asia Minor. Or you can pursue a ceasefire or alliance with the Turks if they are relatively strong enough to fight the Byzantines while I usually take Cyrenacia from the Almos who will most of the time settle for a quick peace since they are at war with Spain most of the time.

At one point I almost played domination style sweeping through the Turks into AM and taking Constantinopel. Conquering the north African coastline and all of Spain with my border at Navarre and Aragon while a third army pushed up through Italy taking Naples and used it as a base for crushing the Pope. This set me with just 5 border provinces: Georgia, Constantiopel, Naples, Aragon and Navarre - easy to defend

Hope this helps and good luck

[MadKow]

Thank you all for your insights.
I'm playing Egypt on normal, conquest.

My good Camel general got the Pride vice very soon in the game, so it took him a couple of good battles to reach Expert Attacker, in order to get back in shape.
As i (with a little help from the Byzantines) extinguished the turks,, my attentions turned to the almohads.
Buzzy as usual with the Spanish they had the whole North Africa waiting for me. The way i did it was move my army straight to Morocco by land from Egypt, and not stopping to conquer the land. Then i followed with jihads. My army in Morocco had to deal with a counterstrike from the major Almohad army stationed in Cordoba, but it did OK. I now own the land from Morocco to Edessa, and I wonder if it is time to strike the Byzantine, build up, or go for the Iberian Peninsula.

[PseRamesses]

Congrats That wasn´t so difficult heh?

I defenitely would go for Asia Minor since many provinces can produce unique units that you are going to need later on plus that way you cut down your 3-prov border of ANT/EDE/SYR to the Byz to a 2-prov of CON/GEO against the Balkans and Khazar instead.

Q: How close are you to the Horde´s emergance in 1230/31?

I suspect that you are now around 1120-30??? If so, you have ample of time to prepare although you can ally with them if they don´t appear in Georgia. Talk about a super-threat to christianity
Build up your navy to protect your shores and rule the Med. By now you should be able to produce ships in ANT/ TRI/ PAL/ SIN and EGY so that won´t be difficult.
With MOR/ CON and GEO as your border the mameluk empire should be a sinch to defend. If you get the alliance with the Horde take MAL/ SIC and NAP which gives you one border more but within striking distance of Rome. Sack it, pull back and watch the silly pope re-emerge in a totally undeveloped province, he he Next would def be the Iberian peninsula whcih adds one more border. With 5 easily defendable provinces I just sit back and play a defensive game since I get bored with domination.

as salaam

[Malcolm Big Head]

I am currently playing as the Turks (Hard). It seems to me that the only requirement to be the Egyptians is to ally with the Turks, attack them, call a cease fire, then attack again.

[Ulair]

I'm playing the Egyptians at the moment (early, normal) and I agree with PseRamesses - go for the Byzantines and make sure you rule the Med and, once you've cleared the Med, the Black Sea - stops the European Byz provinces reinforcing Trebizond by sea. Owning the Med means you can isolate some choice Byz troops on Cyprus, Rhodes and Crete and deal with them at will.

Being new to the eastern side of the map the Byz troops and 25* generals worried me, but they ain't so tough :-). Nubian spearmen, archers and Bedouin camels are a good mix (and cheap), Saracens are good value and once you take Armenia and/or Rum you can churn out Armenian Heavy Cavalry which I've had tremendous fun with http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The Kataphraktoi, Varangians and Pronoiai Allagion look fearsome (especially when stacks appear in rebellious newly-taken Byz provinces) but archers protected by Saracens are very effective at keeping 'em down, with a few Ghazis to carve through the Varangians and camels/AHC to chase down their Trebizond archers.

I've found the Egyptians great fun, and yes, take out the Turks first (hell, they attacked me in Tripoli in about 1100, so they asked for it), either help the Almohads or take 'em out in North Africa if the Spanish are beating them (that's what I had to do - I now share NA with Spain), then go for the Byzantines. Worked for me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif Tripoli to Georgia to Constaniople are that fetching shade of yellow.

OK, now all I have to worry about is those French and Spanish crusades... What's it got to do with the Pope anyway, and me killing Orthodox heretics for him..?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
Ulair

[yonderboy]

Here's the easy strategy as the Egyptians.

- Wipe out the Turks.

- Choose either the Byzantine Empire or the Almohads and wipe them out. I tend to get rid of the Almohads, for two main reasons:

1) They make me nervous sitting that close to Egypt
2) Once conquered, it's a 1-territory border (Mor or Cor).

Then you just sit back and get rich off of your large fleet. Eventually, you'll want to knock off the other Byz/Alm empire to make yourself compete, in size, with whatever other large factions are arising in the Christian West.

Hang out until the Golden Horde come. Then ally and enjoy

[MadKow]

Thanks,
Well, the begin of the game was always my favorite part so i knew it wouldn't be so hard (i'm playing on Normal, after all).
The thing about factions like the Almohads and the Egyptians is how they survive in the middle/end game as the heavier European troops start to dominate the battlefield.
The Turkish are different because they have an awesome array of units. The reason i decided to play the Egyptians is precisely because they don't seem to have anything like AUM or JHI.
I'm curious about what the future will bring.

[yonderboy]

Well always remember that the desert is your friend, and that the Catholics tend to wear armor. Fight accordingly. Litter Spain and the Balkans w/ spies and assassins. Enjoy

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (MadKow @ Mar. 24 2004,11:31)]The thing about factions like the Almohads and the Egyptians is how they survive in the middle/end game as the heavier European troops start to dominate the battlefield.
Muslim factions are much, much less prone to dynasty-ending lack of an heir. Hooray for the harem

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Perhaps it should be renamed heirem.

With reasonable care, you'll stay together while Crusading empires simply fall apart. Then pick up some provinces as they rebel.

========

Fast expansion should be the rule for any Muslim faction. When a Crusade comes later in the game with good troops, just beat it to death with your big bag of florins.

[PanzerJaeger]

Egypt is probably the best Desert faction in the game, imo. Thats why they quickly grow, but their size and power is decieving. Taking over your fellow muslums is one thing, but when youve got to launch an invasion of a lush western euoropean country, youll soon see the factions weeknesses. Camels get a penalty and all those light armored blitz units that were so handy in the desert fighting other low armor units hit a brick wall when they come up on MAA in their element...

Id use Egypts tremendous wealth (especially if you capture constantinople) to make mercenary armies with higher armor/stamina for any european campaigns.

[SirOsis]

I just started playing as the Egyptians on Normal for my first game and have had some interesting events.

I bribed an Byzantine army on Rhodes and used the Inn to hire some mercs to fight the rebellion. I never had bribed an army and wanted to check it out. Rhodes is now in my possession and I am building ships in Egypt to allow for reinforcements/conquest of the other islands. I've got a Dhow in the Eastern Med and a Baggala on the Nile Coast.

I tried to bribe a Turkish army that was laying siege to the Byzantines in Anatolia but a large Byzantine force moved in and the Turks retreated to Rum. The army was bribed though and I had to retreat to Lesser Armenia which I had taken a few years prior.

I've pushed into Syria and just defended against the Turks. Barely won that battle and we both had heavy casualties. My peasants held the line Turkish spearmen are quite tough.

I am allied with the Byzantines so hopefully they will assist in taking out some Turks.

In the short term I hope to destroy the Turks and consolidate my power to take on the Byzantines. The Almohads did not take my offer of alliance but they do not have many forces in Cyrenacia so I am not too concerned.

I am having a problem with Loyalty, however. My generals are wavering. How can I improve their loyalty?

[Seth Infinite]

SirOsis, you finally brought up my biggest problem with the Egyptions...Loyalty. It's a constant problem and I found myself checking my stacks every turn. Had to make sure that the general had at least 3 loyalties. If not, recombine stacks or start unstacking until there was a decent leader. Have you noticed who the biggest trouble makers are...Family. Might have helped if they had a few princesses to party with.

[Xiphias]

To be honest eygpt rarely dominates my game. Usually It's the Byzantines but the Almohads and turks get a look in too. In my current game I'm playing scily on early and by the time I had launched my second crusade the turkish had already annihilated eygpt.

Personally I prefer to fight off the golden hoard (or confine them to one province so they won't reappear). The russian provinces provide a great staging post for taking over europe.

[SirOsis]

An update of my progress for you guys.

Egypt is now pulling in more cash than any other. This is even with my pathetic Sultan who can't even count. (Acumen = 2) My loyalty problems have disappeared as I've been building many things resulting in increased loyalty of my generals.

The Sultan of the Turks was beheaded in 1113 and Egypt now controls Armenia, Rum, Edessa, Lesser Armenia, Antioch, Syria, Tripoli, Palestine, Arabia, Rhodes, Sinai, and Egypt. After the Turks were eliminated Egypt went on a building spree. Massive farm upgrades followed with trading posts. The Byzantines will likely see Egyptian mercenary armies marching on Trebizond, Anatolia, Nicaea and Georgia soon. Maybe Egypt will take Contantinople and control trade in the Black Sea. Crete and Cyprus will be Egyptian as well.

The new Egyptian motto is: Money talks, armies walk.

[katank]

eggy is all massive nubian spear/DA flood.

camel spamming is useful too.

I suggest conquering the byz entirely.

sure the greece and bulgaria add more borders but you'll actually be at peace with them.

I also like to make Khazar and not Georgia my border since it's a nice province for trade and gives steppe cav and steppe heavies.

then, once navy is up, hit the byz emperor's island, twice for ransoms and leave him on the last island.

you need a captive trading partner to last you in end game, so let them stay there.

Taking cyrenacia at least for buffer to egypt and possibly blazing path to cordoba is good as if you don't destroy the almos, the spanish will and might as well get some land out of it.

berber camels are nice addition too.

camel corps all the way.

saracen inf are essentially weakened chiv sgts available in early so take advantage of that.

kawarzies are also toned down knights so they are also useful in break out of the desert.

later abyss guards and mamluk troops make eggy still competitive. armor upgrades are essentialy though when you go out of the desert.

Note: you light and fast troops can actually win a slug fest when your prodigious wealthy enables them to be +4 armor and perhaps even +4 weapon if spain is taken for iron.

[SirOsis]

I decided to push to into Spain and my Camel Warriors made short work of the Almohads in Tunisia and Algeria. More gold for the Egyptian empire. Fighting was fierce in Morocco and the Almohads pushed Egyptian forces back into Algeria. The next year I was able to get the Almohads to retreat into their castle with heavy losses for them. Peasants ran from the field when Prince Babyars charged their pathetic ranks.

I've raised a mercenary army to take Cordoba and Granada. I also didn't want a 2 front war but the Byzantine king died without any heirs so it's time to take some territory. Cyprus, Trezibond, and Georgia should fall soon. The Turks have reappeared in Anatolia and will be driven out.

I've got a question about religion. I've been converting provinces with my Alim's but I'm not sure what this accomplishes. What good is converting a province?

[mfberg]

On taking out the Byz.

Take them out of the lands you need, but if they have kept Naples or an island or two leave them in the game. Islands are trade magnets. You can ally with the Byz to give Scicly/Italy trouble by relieving seiges on the islands (with out of date/low loyalty troops) and when/if you get the ransom demand refuse to pay it.

mfberg

[katank]

@sirosis,

converting the populace to your religion boosts happiness.

also, more muslims and more zeal means better jihads.

multiple jihads at once are the greatest power of muslim factions.

I challenge any faction to fend off thousands of kwarzies and nizaris pouring into their lands who are also low upkeep until their task is accomplished.

[Seth Infinite]

I've played the Egyptians twice and I've never had a successful Jihad. The game would not let me attack with them so I looked it up in the manual. It says they are only for retaking lands you have lost. So, if you never lose a region you can never have a Jihad. Should I intentionally lose region now and then so I can Jihad? My problem with the Muslims has always been lack of loyalty, will Jihads help with that?

[insolent1]

The trick with Jihads is to give up new provinces & once the other faction takes control of them, launch loads of Jihads at them. After 2 successful Jihads you will have virtually no loyalty problems amongst your generals.

[katank]

I like 4 or more at once succeeding as that almost invariably maxes your sultan's influence and piety is automatically maxed.

I recommend getting a neutral newly taken rebel province to rebel so you don't have possibly large faction armies to fight. loyalist armies are nasty to face.

else, get your own worthless provinces to rebel.

try arabia.

it's relatively poor and you can afford to lose it for a turn or two.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (SirOsis @ May 06 2004,19:14)]What good is converting a province?
Katank already answered this, but I have another use to add. More Muslims means more happiness for a Muslim ruler, but less happiness for a Christian one. For example, at the moment an alim and a spy of mine ar subverting Crete. It does take a some time, but the Byzantines can't send troops do to my navel superiority and can't send priests due to my Syrian assassins. When it will finally revolt, I will attack it and gain a naval basis without endangering my trade with the Byzantines.

About Jihads, I only tried it one once and that one wouldn't move. I had no idea how to target it. I couldn't even add troops to it. What was I doing wrong?
I wanted to target it to Armenia which was formerly of the Turks but now occupied by the Byzantines (IIRC I had an alliance with them).

[squippy]

Another good case study for conversion is Naples. It starts in Byz posession in Early but is predominantly catholic rather than orthodox. This goes from bad to worse if the catholic factions - and this is right next to Rome - send bishops over. Not only is the territory remote, its unconnected by sea lanes, and converting the other way Its all set up for Naples to revolt.

[PseRamesses]

You can also check out the Guides-section for each faction through early, high and late eras.

[Chimpyang]

Or you can do a peasent blitz using your elader..swamp he turks with peasents and UM

[katank]

@ chimpyang.

alternative to peasants and UM is the equally cheap nubians and camels.

in contrast, this combo actually works pretty well considering these junk units don't rout when your fine leader camel general is leading them.

not only can you kill the Turks this way, but trash flooding the Byz this way works too.

4or 5 of these a turn certainly means you can out attrit the 1 decent unit they get from Const.

not to mention that they are sometimes dumb and prefer to mass ships even while owned on land.

[SirOsis]

Another update for ya. Everthing seems to be going well for me. I've been pushing the powerhouse Germany back and control Hungary, Serbia and Carpathia. I had my first bridge defense. Oh how they were hurting. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The year is 1162 and the Grand Mosque will be finally finished in 10 years in Egypt. Egyptian fleets control most of the Med and I'm bringing in lots of cash. I did run through 30000 florins real fast building up armies and infrastructure and am trying to slow my expansion somewhat to get some reserves. I've also noticed as my empire grows the generals get some ugly vices.

Thanks for all the tips. Helping my game out greatly.

How important is Iron and weapon upgrades?

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (Ludens @ May 07 2004,06:22)]About Jihads, I only tried it one once and that one wouldn't move. I had no idea how to target it. I couldn't even add troops to it. What was I doing wrong?
I wanted to target it to Armenia which was formerly of the Turks but now occupied by the Byzantines (IIRC I had an alliance with them).
The problem is that -- despite what the manual says -- Jihads don't work against Muslim provinces that have been taken by the infidels.

They work against provinces of your faction that have been taken over by another faction, whether the invader is an infidel or not.

This is something of an annoyance. The Christians take over Palestine and the Almohads can't declare Jihad to take the Holy Land back from the non-believers because Palestine was not an Almohad province?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

[katank]

weapons only good for attackers like heavy cav and swords.

armor is important for all.

ghazis with weapon upgrades are crazy at killing stuff. silver armour a must for them though as otherwise they die too easily.

ghulams can also benefit from weapons etc.

The problem is that the Eggy start too far from Iron.

Once you cut a path to an Iron province like Hungary and develop it to a metalsmith, the game is almost over.

This is a serious lacking in the game IMHO as the Iron provinces need redistribution.

Iberia is great for Iron and so is the central-east europe patches of 10 with tuscany and sweden the lone ones

taking out iron for Leon and Franconia and instead putting one into say Smolensk, Sinai, Lesser Armenia, Anjou, etc. would be good and gives all factions more equitable access at that resource.

I would like to give them to high conflict zones so that two or three factions get a crack at it.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Doug-Thompson @ May 13 2004,23:16)]The problem is that -- despite what the manual says -- Jihads don't work against Muslim provinces that have been taken by the infidels.
They work against provinces of your faction that have been taken over by another faction, whether the invader is an infidel or not.
This advice has saved me a lot of annoyance and frustration. Thank you very much Doug-Thompson.

[Doug-Thompson]

You're welcome. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif