Castle Sieges (Okay, I'm in... now what)

[Don Corleone]

Hello,
Despite what Billy Crystal said in Princess Bride, I'm NOT having fun storming the castle. I do pretty well at the beginning, putting my catapults just far enough out to reach the walls, but I have a few problems....

1) The archers on the wall appear to have better range than my catapults, because I'm taking casualties, and in ranks of troops behind the catapults as well.~:eek:

2) Those archers on the wall are amazing shots. I line up three ranks of spearmen in front of the catapults to be pin cushions and yet, the archers manage to feed their arrows through the gaps in the ranks and hit my catapult guys. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

3) Okay, I've broken holes into the walls. I seem to be taking 100% to 150% of the casualties I'm inflicting. I understand the defenders are fighting for their lives, but 10 Turkish Urban Militia (not AUM) (men, not units) shouldn't be able to hold off two regiments of order footmen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

4) A side note... I play as the Italians, and its 1170. Why aren't I getting Knights Hospitalier when I launch a crusade? Just Order Footmen....

Thanks for your help.

[Kekvit Irae]

Seige weapons are seriously underpowered in the game. I prefer to mod mine so they dont get killed right off the bat by castle towers by increasing the range.

[Mysterium]

1+2: Yup, the castle is usually on a hill, and then the towers add another chunk of height, so the archers in the towers are firing from quite a height advantage. They can hit basically anyone they want to shoot at.

3: I usually take between 2-1 and 3-1 casualties during an assault (although I'm usually playing pretty aggressively). No retreat gives something like a +8 morale modifier (I think) so they're not going to be retreating, and can do quite a bit of damage. Plus I've found Order footmen to not be quite as strong as I think they are once I toss them into a castles seige, for some reason.

4: Dunno.

Trick I sometimes use when attacking castles. Worked great in Constantinople, where the castle was defended by 700+ foot: Attack the front gate with catapults, etc. DON'T go for the walls, becuase then the hole is too large. Once the gate is open, throw in a cheap, easily defeated unit that's gonna get knocked back. Peasants, fanatics, something without a pole-arm bonus. Keep better foot troops waiting around the doors. As their infantry push back your peasants, they'll keep on coming through the gate, staying engaged with the peasants as they get knocked back. Since they're in a nice, exposed column from coming through the gate, they can be flanked on both sides by your better foot troops. That tactic usually lets me get the initiative enough to get some spearmen through the gate and win a foothold inside the castle.

[Kekvit Irae]

The AI places very little priority on including Knights in Crusades. Open up the Gnome editor (assuming you have it), and scroll down until you see the KnightsHospitaller, and over to column 11 (Rebeling Troops) and change the number in CRUSADE(-10) to something a bit higher. Religious Fanatics are set to 20

[Don Corleone]

Thanks for the useful suggestions.... I almost wish I could be a fly on the wall for the UH OH moment http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif when those castle guards look left & right after marching out in a tight column, like PlayDoh out of the fun factory....


Quote[/b] ]Open up the Gnome editor (assuming you have it), and scroll down until you see the KnightsHospitaller,
I'm afraid I'm fairly new to the online community (and for that matter, to the game) so I don't have much experience w/ mods and the editors. I'll have to check that out in the Read Here for Mod Info sectionhttp://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif . Is Gnome covered in there as well?

Thanks.

[Kekvit Irae]

Quote[/b] (Don Corleone @ Mar. 25 2004,16:08)]

Thanks for the useful suggestions.... I almost wish I could be a fly on the wall for the UH OH moment http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif when those castle guards look left & right after marching out in a tight column, like PlayDoh out of the fun factory....


Quote[/b] ]Open up the Gnome editor (assuming you have it), and scroll down until you see the KnightsHospitaller,
I'm afraid I'm fairly new to the online community (and for that matter, to the game) so I don't have much experience w/ mods and the editors. I'll have to check that out in the Read Here for Mod Info sectionhttp://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif . Is Gnome covered in there as well?

Thanks.
The Gnome Editor is mearly a spreadsheet program built specifically for MTW.
You can get it at http://www.kekvitirae.com/Gnome_UnitBuildProj_Editorv2_1_.0.zip
I didnt make it, I just host it

[Doug-Thompson]

Has anybody tried wedge formation in this situation?

A small group of defenders have their backs to a wall -- literally.

Your troops can't crowd around them. Only a few are going to be engaged anyway.

So why not go into a wedge and hit them precisely? Hit them again and pull back. If the defenders come out from the wall, then engage at will and surround them completely.

Just an idea. I've never tried this.

[Mysterium]

Haven't tried that, but maybe it would be good to hit them with a wedge, then switch to close. It seems to me that disengaging would be a serious problem.

[Impaler]

Well i think that is realistic that the defenders are so tough. They are fighting for their lives. They ain't gonna sell them easily. Not all strongholds are impregnable though. But they do have the advantage in high and better position.
I like to use crap units to storm some points of the walls and draw the enemy fire while my mangonels and trenbuches firing at the same spots. When the wall is down I focus on towers if i can to soften defenses a bit. Then it is time to lure the defenders out and cut them down using the strategy you described above.

[yonderboy]

That's another huge biggy. Are you using vanilla catapults or the big-jobby Mangonels?
I ALWAYS (whenever I can that is...) use Mangonels when going up against a Castle or better. It's unreasonable to think that a little 'ol cranked catapult should be able to outdistance a huge castle's defences. That's why huge weapons like siege towers and Mangonels were used back then. Now... if you're saying that you're assaulting a Keep w/ a Mangonel and are still getting slaughtered in the process, I think something might be a bit off somewhere.

[katank]

@ yonderboy, the mangonels and catapults have the same range although the former have better power and thus more damage.

however, the magonels are horribly inaccurate at low valour and their large size makes them easy to cripple by castle fire. the catapults can avoid much fire and their low angle shots have more chances of hitting.


Definitely use trash units like peasants to force the gates and even fake rout them in order to lure them out.

this is when your OP mercs can cut them down.

end result is the castle is your's for the least price as only rabble and mercs died.


BTW, the arrows that are hitting you can be keep arrows which have range over the whole map.

my suggestion is to simply deal with it as it ends only when the entire castle falls.

[bighairyman]

i never use the catapult or the other early siege weapons, hired a good defense mercenary, then use them to punch open the gate, since you're going to disband them after the siege, it doesn't matter how many of them got killed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

After the gunpower age, use cannon, especially the Muslims siege cannons. Remember, the towers will stop shooting your soldiers after they capture the area where it resides. so always use fast infantry to quickly capture those areas, and always have 2 units of shock troops for castle sieges, and bring plenty of arches http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Agravain of Orkney]

The first thing I do is carefully choose the army for the Castle assault. A couple of artillery, go light on cav and missile, and heavy on infantry. Deploy the artillery on high ground as far away as possible but in range of the targets I want to destroy. I'll put a throw-away unit near the art to act as a target/shield for the artillery crew till they have done their jobs. The rest of my army is deployed away, possibly hidden in trees. I usually open the battle intending to breach the walls in two different places. Then I send a light force as a diversion to one breach, while I send my main battle force into the other.

Defending a siege I like a spear wall across the breach on hold formation/hold position for the enemy to hurl themselves against, backed by some infantry to charge through when the spears start to waver. All the while I have some archers standing behind tossing arrows into the fray.