WOODS

[SwordsMaster]

..about woods.~http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif
I know that both cavalry and spearmen lose their respective bonuses in woods...but if i have to fight in woods, with cavalry or spearmen, which one should i use?

And another question, will the cavalry crush the spearmen in the woods?
Druzhina cav vs Arm Speramen is the concrete case i wonder about...

Thanks for the help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[octavian]

probably the best place to check out is clan berserk, with their unit compare tool clan berserk (http://shogun.cafe24.com/medieval/) i believe you can get your answer there. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[motorhead]

In woods:
- cav suffer -2 attack, -2 defense
- spear/pikes lose only their rank bonus [they retain their bonus vs cav]. spears/pikes should be set to engage-at-will in forests, not hold formation

Equal valor/upgrade Druzhina Cav vs Arm. Spear in woods:
Druz: Att: 0 [this includes their AP bonus]
Def: 1
Arm. Spear: Att: 0
Def: 8

So, in woods, spearmen will do better, at least against cav. Best unit in woods are sword/axe men. They don't lose any bonuses in woods, and will do better against cav/spears (since they do suffer some loss of bonus in woods).

[SwordsMaster]

Thanks for the help guys... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[katank]

yep, use axemen/swordsmen in woods against cav heavy armies like the horde and you'll do well.

I remember my epic stand in khazar with gold armoured varangs in the woods. That was fun. Joms in woods with ful weapons+armor would be even sweeter though

[Mouzafphaerre]

-
Do Woodsmen have any bonus/advantage in woods? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
_

[motorhead]

Quote[/b] ]Do Woodsmen have any bonus/advantage in woods?
- nope. they simply suffer no disadvantage like cav/spears/pikes.

[NewJeffCT]

Quote[/b] (katank @ Mar. 26 2004,08:07)]yep, use axemen/swordsmen in woods against cav heavy armies like the horde and you'll do well.

I remember my epic stand in khazar with gold armoured varangs in the woods. That was fun. Joms in woods with ful weapons+armor would be even sweeter though
That is true - I had a unit of gallowglasses slaughter a whole slew of Mongol Heavy Cavalry in the woods once. They decimated a good part of several units of 'em... armor piercing, strong charge and in the woods, so the cav gets penalties.

[son of spam]

Woodsmen get the "home, sweet home" bonus in the woods, that is

-1 attack because they are too fat from eating home cooked meals
-1 defense because they are busy celebrating at family reuniouns
-2 morale because they can always run home and cry to mommy

+1 valor because they are defending their homes

[katank]

LMAO, that's hilarious.

Well, I always try to use them in the woods.

I like to go "woodsmen" hmm guess I'll use them in woods. steppe cav, use em on the steppes, etc.

served me well so far.

Indeed, positioning highland clansmen on the elevations and charging em down hill have serve me very well.

I think that in the woods, the woodsmen are one of the most cost effective units ever due to ability to maul cav, spears, etc. there and only cost 75 florins (62 if Rus).

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] (SwordsMaster @ Mar. 25 2004,18:28)]..about woods.~http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif
I know that both cavalry and spearmen lose their respective bonuses in woods...but if i have to fight in woods, with cavalry or spearmen, which one should i use?

And another question, will the cavalry crush the spearmen in the woods?
Druzhina cav vs Arm Speramen is the concrete case i wonder about...

Thanks for the help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
For a practical example taken from my latest campaign, try spearmen vs hobilars, outside the forest and inside. The differance is quite shocking. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[VikingHorde]

Never tryed that, could be fun to see http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[lancer63]

Every time I have to send my horsies into wooded areas I make sure I say my goodbyes before.
I have lost all kinds of cav. in forests. That's no horse country. And the reason everyone uses them against the debut of the GH boys. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[SwordsMaster]

Well i have to say that i ve found the exception to the rule.
Playing the russians, 1338, hard.
120 boyards routed 180 pav xbows+80archers+200peasants,losing just about 50 men, mostly while climbing the hill where they all stood.
Then they ran into the forests but still my glorious chevalieurs chased them and butchered them...MUAHAHAAHA:jester:
if you wonder that was with a 5 star gen.An heir who im RP in the present campaign. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[motorhead]

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ Mar. 29 2004,17:58)]Well i have to say that i ve found the exception to the rule.
Playing the russians, 1338, hard.
120 boyards routed 180 pav xbows+80archers+200peasants,losing just about 50 men, mostly while climbing the hill where they all stood.
Then they ran into the forests but still my glorious chevalieurs chased them and butchered them...MUAHAHAAHA:jester:
if you wonder that was with a 5 star gen.An heir who im RP in the present campaign. ~:smoking:
This is an exception to what rule? The other posts are talking about comparable cav vs infantry in the woods. Your post only shows that powerful cav, led by a 5* commander, can wipe out peasants and non-melee missile troops. It's a pretty obvious outcome. An exception would be equal valor cav defeating a sword/spear/axe/polearm unit in the woods.

[Pitt_Slayer]

nah wouldnt send woodsmen in to the tress coz they might start chopping them down (TIMBER) lol
tress are good for maa or axe men but tree's are good for hiding horse unit's.

[Seven.the.Hun]

bring the big axes to the woods...i mean it is the WOODS
they do great there, if u dont have one, bring your sword,
cav is still good for flanking, or attacking rears, and spears are spears afterall...
i do love to cause mayhem with those woodsmen and vikings though...
much fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[SwordsMaster]

ok, yore right motorhead,i shouldnt compare them...But it was fun anyway.
Just a question: Do the Druzhina disappear in late?
Cause i was starting to enjoy them... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Cazbol]

Woods certainly are the muslims' best friend when they go conquering Europe. It's one of the few measures that muslims have against the heavy christian cavalry on their home court, and the mongol horde for that matter. I'm taking over Europe with the Almohads at the moment, in the late era, and most of my generals would deserve a V&V called Treehugger.

[katank]

for power I wouldn't argue that big axes like huscarles and varangs trump woodsmen.

however, a wave of pure woodsmen in the woods can sometimes lure an enemy to its death and are very cost effective.

with the novgorod, a woodsmen cost only 62 florins and 16 of em run about 1k which is like 2 varangs.

in the woods, they can actually dish out more damage and is dirt cheap with like no build reqs.

a wave of woodsmen from me can really soften up an enemy and I expect them to rout and die though some actually survive.

It's funny to see the enemy RKs get lured into a forest and mauled by my woodsmen swarms.

I get to take out their units for a fraction of the price