how do i get units OFF the battlefield?

[Navaros]

how do i get a unit OFF the battlefield? i didn't notice any way to do this. if i want a unit GONE from the battlefield during a battle, how do i make that happen? please don't say use the ROUT BUTTON because that does NOT work

i really hope there is a good way to get units OFF the battlefield when you want them gone so you can call in reinforcements WHEN YOU NEED THEM, not when most of your army is already dead (as i'm forced to do at the moment :( )

[Phatose]

Move them close to the edge of the map and use the route button, or use the withdraw command (Ctrl+W is default, I believe), and let them walk off the edge of the map. They aren't considered 'gone' until the last man leaves the map, so just make sure they're close to the edge when you start it to speed things up.

[Navaros]

Quote[/b] (Phatose @ Mar. 25 2004,22:40)]Move them close to the edge of the map and use the route button, or use the withdraw command (Ctrl+W is default, I believe), and let them walk off the edge of the map. They aren't considered 'gone' until the last man leaves the map, so just make sure they're close to the edge when you start it to speed things up.
that does not sound very EFFICIENT to me

in the middle of a battle it's not like i can just magically have all my units get to the edge of a map

the current system has me taking on reinforcement units one at a time and that is NOT cool. i need my reinforcements to come in as large groups of 5 units or more AT ONCE.

surely there is a better way to get units off the map than what is suggested in the quoted text here......? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flat.gif

[ichi]

Ctrl W, or you can right click on a unit or on a group of units and the option Withdraw from Battle will appear. They do not have to be near the edge, but its faster sometimes to run a unit to the edge and then Ctrl W, but usually this doesn't make any real difference in time.

Managing reinforcements is an acquired taste- meaning that at first it seems hard and inefficient. Remember that the enemy has the same issues as you do, and plan accordingly. You can't chase the enemy across the map and arrive with a few exhausted units and hope to hold against the enemy fresh troops.

Set the rally flag close to the edge where reinforcements will appear - this makes them available for you to command as soon as they get there.

The best idea I have had is to not allow yourself to get down to 9-10 units before you start focusing on reinforcements. Start early and don't wait until the units are dead tired - exhasuted units go slow and take forever to withdraw.

When I get down to less than 12 units on the field in a big battle I retreat back to my edge to buy some more time.

ichi

[Cazbol]

Quote[/b] (Navaros @ Mar. 25 2004,22:49)]the current system has me taking on reinforcement units one at a time and that is NOT cool. i need my reinforcements to come in as large groups of 5 units or more AT ONCE.
The plain and simple solution is to wait until 5 units have fully withdrawn, leaving 5 vacant unit slots, and then press the reinforcement button 5 times. You will then get 5 units arriving at more or less the same time.

There usually isn't any reason to move the units to the edge of the map before ordering them to withdraw. As soon as you give the order they get out as fast as they possibly can. The only valid reason I can see is if their withdrawal route leads through enemy posistion.

[TinCow]

There are two general things I have learned about reinforcements.

1) Withdraw ranged units that you don't plan on using in melee immediately upon them exhausting their ammo. This is how I free up the majority of my slots for other reinforcements. The first wave is usually where you need the most ranged attack anyway, so I like to start with about 6 archers (for example), then retreat all of those and bring in 4 new archers and 2 new melee units. This allows for refreshing of the lines without pulling depleted units out (which can leave you vulnerable).

2) Start front line unit withdrawal the instant you see the current enemy wave begin to rout. This will give you the maximum amount of time in which to get them off the field and new units on before the next wave comes. As long as you're not on the other side of the field from where your reinforcements arrive, you should have a newly reinforced line the next time the enemy comes.

3) Don't be afraid of retreating 25%-50% units if you have reinforcements to spare. Better to save those units and their newly gained valor than to let them get smacked around even more in the next wave. Of course, this only applies if you're not hanging on by your fingernails and aren't going to need every last man to win.

[Doug-Thompson]

This is why I play with huge unit size.

[VividYoshee]

Occaisonally I use reinforcements when I have large armies and want to withdraw them while still causing as much damage to the attacker as possible. Usually you need terrain to help out a bit though...

I have a number of different retreat tactics (and attacks) which all correspond to various scenarios, mostly map dependant.

I won't cover the simplest one, bridge battle, as now that you know the withdraw command the strategy is pretty obvious in that scenario.

The best way to retreat is to be prepared to make sacrifices. You can either:

A) Choose a unit to die, use them to hold as much of the enemy as possible while your other units try to run. If the enemy has cavalry, this won't help, you need time to get away.

B) The sacrifice I prefer is to not have all of my units engaged at the start of a battle. I keep a reserve line of 2-3 units. This will sacrifice your initial holding power, as it shrinks your main line, but if the enemy concentrates on your forward units they might turn their flanks in, allowing you a slight side flank with your reserve line. If the numbers are in your favor (and your reserve line has a good intimidation factor, for instance a strong charge that kills a lot from the flank quickly) you can sometimes cause the enemy to consider routing.

It sometimes works, even against superior numbers, it is more of a position timing move and is hard to work out. If you have a superior force to begin with it really doesn't make much difference.

If you get that rout you then pull back your main line, and focus your reserve on chasing away fast enemy units (before the enemy 'unrouts' itself). After you chase a little bit withdraw now that your main line is heading off the field (with valor gains intact). You also retreat your archers at this point if they are low in ammo.

You can pull back to the same position you started in, especially if you managed to rout the enemy pretty far, but usually it is best to back it up a bit in the direction of your reinforcements. The first reinforcement line should be strong line infantry that will keep you on the battlefield. Once they arrive and are in position pull back the reserve line off the map, I usually trade them for cavalry (note if your using old MTW this requires a lot of preplanning and stack manipulation, a good feature they probably already got is to choose your reinforcements...), but it is up to you.

The second battle (cause we are assuming this is one of those mega armies) will either be the regrouped enemy, or its first wave of reinforcements. Usually the AI sends out its toughest units first, so this should be an easier battle. The tough units are already depleted if they are trying round 2, and the backups are crappy. At this point I usually turn to the standard wall of soldiers and trillions of arrows strategy. If you have backup archers you bring them in, if you don't, you just add infantry for the final all out smash. At this point I try to just drag out the battle with my front line, low casualties, but I don't really care if they do much damage or not (I hope they account at least 1 to 1). Here is where archers earn their money by picking off the enemy's trash without me sending in good guys to do fighting. (The good ones you use to create that initial rout).

Anyway, I tend to have two results with this strategy.

1) Successful, you manage to keep control during the initial skirmish, fire lots of arrows into the opponent and incite a rout (even a temporary one). The enemy that returns is either inferior or tired and is crushed by your reinforcement line. At this point you also had brought in your cavalry and can enjoy chasing them all the way back across the map gaining prisoners.

2) Partial Success, the initial rout doesn't occur, the enemy just won't back down and your reserve line and main line get embroiled in a bloody melee mess. In this case I tend to retreat my archers and bring in the reinforcements in their place. This line just holds position on the edge of the map, your main force will likely rout and the enemy will come after them. Hopefully they are all tired and when they arrive your second line kills them from fatique penalty (also when chasing they tend to break formation a little, so you may be able to break them based on this scattering). Casualties are worst then you would hope, but you still tend to win the battle if your not too hard up for troops.

As is obvious, both of these expect that you have troops to dispose with, if you have equal numbers and quality to the enemy you will want a strategy without planned retreats (in those battles you sort of keep track of the kill counts and slowly release one fatigue units one by one to replace). If however you got like 3000 troops (3 stacks in small units) even against something like 5000 or more this can work as the successive waves usually don't come in with the same strength and also have to cross the entire map to get you. After the initial reinforcement strategy you just switch to a grint it out philosophy and can usually kill more than you lose.


Finally, if you are expecting to retreat entirely from the field anyway once you are on the edge of the map you can pretty much decide when to call it quits (hopefully while the bar is still mostly green) and not lose too many troops.