Advice for the Italians...

[PseRamesses]

Hey guys

Have been through every faction in MTW and VI and have won with them all. Saved the trickiest one for last, at least what I think, the Italians.

Theese are my simple gameplay-rules:

1. I always play GA-games (glorious achivements)
2. I always try to RP (role play) faction after historical events.

The RP is hard since I know little of Italian history after the fall of Rome and the Italians portrayed in the game didn´t really exist as an uniform state.
I´d be most grateful for any "do and don´t", hints and tips in general or if you feel to give me "the grand plan" you´re more than welcome.

Thanks in advance

[HopAlongBunny]

A very quick summation of what I do with the Italians.

1) Never trust the Pope;
2) Make sure the North is secure; esp Venice;
3) Take Sicily asap;
4) Build fleets until every ocean area is filled to bursting;
5) Take Spain as soon as the rest a accomplished;
6) Never trust the Pope.

Enjoy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[nick_maxell]

If you want to rp it attack yourself and pull together whenever the pope or the HRE want to do something (or side with either of them) - as you said "Italy" didn t exist until the late 18's and was more a loose connection of independent city states waring against each other. I don t remember the GA goals for italy but two historic things come to mind: sack Constantinople with the crusaders you transported there (not your own) and charge them for the fun - thats what Venice did http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

nick

[katank]

agreed with HopAkongBunny, take out Sicily and the Sicilians.

There is only room for one pirate errr. I mean med expantionist navy power.

Just like English should always take out French and vice versa, I always take out the SIcilians when playing the Italians and vice versa.

I would recommend snagging Serbia if you can and establish a crusader state with the four crusader ones and also grabbing syria.

taking some islands off the byz early to assure naval superiority is good and so is sacking const. around the start of High to be historically accurate.

I woudl also say smack the pope into a little castle in papal states and starve him unitl almost dead. This means he will not be a threat and don't reemerge.

establish baltic and steppe presence for trade as well as scandanavia.

I create italian legions of avar nobles and huscarles. destroys all. proud to be successors of rome.

also means I trash the byz occasionally for being pretenders. same for HRE. sometimes I reunite the HRE except under the italian banner. muhahahaha

[metatron]

Quote[/b] (HopAlongBunny @ Mar. 27 2004,20:14)]A very quick summation of what I do with the Italians.

1) Never trust the Pope;
2) Make sure the North is secure; esp Venice;
3) Take Sicily asap;
4) Build fleets until every ocean area is filled to bursting;
5) Take Spain as soon as the rest a accomplished;
6) Never trust the Pope.

Enjoy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
That sounds like the like the Empire's history, well except the Pope part. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[alman9898]

1.) Take Serbia first -- they're an EASY target and the province has gold
2.) Take Sicily -- an excellent cash cow
3.) Trade is very important especially when you have provinces like Venice (and eventually Sicily)
4.) The Pope is the source of all evils http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (nick_maxell @ Mar. 28 2004,05:15)]I don t remember the GA goals for italy but two historic things come to mind: sack Constantinople with the crusaders you transported there (not your own) and charge them for the fun - thats what Venice did
Sadly it isn't in the GA Goals. (Why CA Why?)

However when the Italy PBEM Campaign was started off I set it as a task for your kings to do... Crusade against Constantinople and raise hell, always good for a laugh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_surrender.gif

[son of spam]

Well since Italy didn't exist as a unified state, I'd suggest this "historical" event.

1). Take your king and kill him (make sure he has an heir)
2). Transport said heir to isolated island(move your boats away)
3). Use spies to kill those bastard generals Traitors KILL THEM ALL
4). Enjoy nice big civil war/huge rebellions
5). Pertend the rebels are all italian city states
6). Prepare to get your ass kicked by AI factions who don't have any interest in historical realism. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_hide.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif

[katank]

LOL, don't even need to kill king.

Once I inadvertently got my king stranded in Malta while campaigning and his heir caused a civil war against his dad must be very eager for the throne.

I did pick the disrespectful kid and he actually turned out to be a pretty good king Having a civil war with two sides is already pretty good. Besides, it acutally split into roughly the genoese confederacy and the venetians pretty cool http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[mbrasher1]

Invade Naples early -- before you get ships. The Byz will forgive you since you have no common border. Plus they have problems there, and it gives you a common frontier with Sicily, which you'll want soon enough.

The Germans usually build their chapter house in Burgundy and it will cross you borders. If the Germans invade you, raze Burgundy.

Get your ships to sea, but remember that the Germans can whip you early if they can concentrate their resources.

Build Genoese archers, mounted x-bow and Italian Infantry ASAP. This combo will rock your enemies if you add in a few militia sergeants.

[PseRamesses]

Since I´ve been sick and can´t lie in bed all day so I started a GA-game as the Italians. My early strats where:

1. Take out the Pope
2. Naples
3. Sicilians

Took out the Papacy in 1101 and 1102. The Byz declared war on me soo I took Naples in 1112. The Sillyans ;) attacked Naples in 1117 so in 1118 I took Sicily and Malta in 1120.
The Papacy have come back three times in an empty province with no upgrades owned by a small reb-force, he he
It´s now 1139 and I´ve just burned that dress wearing faggot pope on a stake yet again. I´m solid on keep level in all provs except Malta and I´m about to launch my first crusade and have double-ships in 75% of the Med.

Conclusion so far: I realized that my buildup was to long sinze I should have taken "mbrasher1´s" advice and take Naples first then take out the Pope so that I won´t get x-commed for taking out the Sicilians next.

Q: Has anyone got the GA-goals for the Italians 1087-1453?

[Mouzafphaerre]

Quote[/b] (PseRamesses @ Mar. 29 2004,07:47)]Q: Has anyone got the GA-goals for the Italians 1087-1453?
-
From Nefarious' docs:

EARLY

Homelands:

Genoa (3)
Milan (3)
Venice (3)
Tuscany (2)
Corsica (1)
Sardinia (1)

Conquest:

1 per 5 provinces


HIGH

Homelands:

Genoa (3)
Milan (3)
Venice (3)
Tuscany (2)
Crete (1)
Corsica (1)
Sardinia (1)

Conquest:

1 per 3 provinces


LATE

Homelands:

Genoa (3)
Milan (3)
Venice (3)
Tuscany (2)
Crete (1)
Corsica (1)

Conquest:

1 per 3 provinces

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
_

[The_Emperor]

You forgot the 'Noble Mercantilism' GA Goal that exist through most of the High Period. (Get the highest trade income)

[oblivious maximus]

Is there a good Italian mod around, with italian states?

[katank]

in medmod late, you get the genoese confederacy and the venetians.

not practical for all city states since then you would be way too vulnerable.

[PseRamesses]

Besides "Noble Mercantilism" is there any other GA-events I should now of?

[PseRamesses]

Started my 2nd Italian camp the other night and now I don´t understand that I was under the impression that it was goiing to be difficult to play them. Took some of your advice guys, thanks, and things are looking really well.
It´s now 1178 AD and I´ve a strong position with total naval superiority and my coffers are exceeding 300.000 fl.
Playing GA-style except for the goal to "unify" all Italian states I´ve conquered all four crusader-provs but nothing else.
The Pope is not a problem, and hasn´t been since 1100 AD when I took him out the first time, and as soon as he comes back I take him out with my "knight-army" in Naples.

[Rosacrux]

Italy is one of the very few factions in vanilla MTW/VI that you can play and win the game without having to fight a single war. You can accomplish all the GA you need without resorting to war and your homelands are those you have at the start.

Italy is especially fun to play with MedMod 3.14. Even though its relatively easy (actually, it's extremely easy and that's on Expert http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) if you RolePlay fanatically and put some restrictions to yourself, you are in for one hell of a game.

Only downside when playing Italy in MedMod, you won't have to face Italy in the endgame (they almost always end up as the games superpower, at least when the Human player is not Sicily or HRE) which takes away some of the fun - once I was playing as Byzantines and there were only three factions left - Italy (the biggest) Danemark (huge naval power in the Atlantic and northern part of the map) and me (Byzantium, all the Byzantine, Turkish & Egyptian lands minus Antioch, plus Khazaria and Serbia)

Well, after a huge naval onslaught (Italy had a 15+ ship stack in each and every sea province in the Med and kicked my butt) I was wiped out of the face of the earth, succumbing to endless hordes of the top-notch Italian infantry (light, heavy and condotierri). That was my only defeat against the Italians, but it was sound and clear.

Great, great game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[katank]

well, homelands of crete means that you have to take on the byz.

the cathedral in florence, standard crusades, and trade monopoly GAs are the only ones I remember.

I don't get why they call em italian light inf in vanilla cuz they are scary enough and heavily armored.

they are essentially chiv sergs. on speed and available one era eraly. If playing Italians, capitalize on this.

in medmod, the uber militia units they get besides their heavy inf is just wrong and is a serious gameplay issue IMHO.

they tend to split the HRE with the Danes in my games. so much for reunification under the german banner http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (katank @ Mar. 31 2004,18:42)]the cathedral in florence, standard crusades, and trade monopoly GAs are the only ones I remember.
Do you know when theese events occur Katank?

[katank]

crusades last until 1095 IIRC

cathedral in Tuscany is all I know. I guess around same time as Notre Dame which would be 1249 or so? gotta check that

The trade monopoly GAs occur every 50 years or so from High onwards IIRC (most trade income).

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (katank @ April 02 2004,19:19)]crusades last until 1095 IIRC
IIRC????

You do mean 1205, like any other crusader factions the "crusade-era" ends in 1205 to receive GA points, right?

[katank]

nvm, must be confusing with the krak or some crusade related thing that ends earlier.