Caravan

[Mouzafphaerre]

-
At the COM...

It seems we'll have some real land trade at last. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif
_

[Kraxis]

Great Now If only I could see it. I must have ried to watch it 50 times just now... and updated the m,ain page 10 times. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Scipio]

Quote[/b] ]Great Now If only I could see it. I must have ried to watch it 50 times just now... and updated the m,ain page 10 times. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

I know me 2 shogun said something about the old links dont work anymore or something to that effect...

[Kraxis]

Well, I don't know any other link than those two at the main page. And they still show the other buildings.

[Scipio]

Yeah I know I posted on the .com asking what the new link is but it would seem Mouzafphaerre has it. Link plz

[The Wizard]

Seems like we can finally make trading agreements detailing caravan routes and sea trading routes, which will run from settlement/port to settlement/port, and we'll probably have to use the new diplomatic options to specify the route. Great



~Wiz

[Trax]

Yoou can see the caravan here (http://www.legiontotalwar.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2862)
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Voigtkampf]

New building - a caravan? Hmmm… Well, you never stop learning, don't you…?

But, between us, those fellas at the CA sometimes scare me big time

[The_Emperor]

A Caravan is a Building? I thought it was just a bunch of guys roaming around the landscape with stuff

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (voigtkampf @ Mar. 31 2004,12:15)]New building - a caravan? Hmmm… Well, you never stop learning, don't you…?

But, between us, those fellas at the CA sometimes scare me big time
ROTFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif Me too... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif

[The Wizard]

It can be considered a 'building' because it is not military. If you want something concrete, then think of the great market square in a big city as part of the caravan 'building'.



~Wiz

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ Mar. 31 2004,12:20)]A Caravan is a Building? I thought it was just a bunch of guys roaming around the landscape with stuff
CA seems to think so... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thinking2.gif

[Kraxis]

Enough with the attacks on CA... It is beginning to look like you are actively searching for something to be disgruntled about.

Where do you suppose the caravans would leave from? Anywhere? No, there would be a more specified structure, be it a marketlike structure or a storehouse. That and the little extra stuff like places to sleep perhaps. It is after all a 'state'-sponsored construction, not a personal venture. Consider it something to attract caravans.

[Basileus]

Intressting indeed, trade has always been important in history.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Mar. 31 2004,19:57)]Enough with the attacks on CA... It is beginning to look like you are actively searching for something to be disgruntled about.
I was not attacking, just making a joke... (problem is forgot to add the clown smilie)

Its great that trade routes are in the game http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[alman9898]

perhaps a caravan is just building a basic trading network. as it upgrades the network expands.

[Scipio]

Quote[/b] ]Enough with the attacks on CA... It is beginning to look like you are actively searching for something to be disgruntled about.


LOL I agree, to the CA we must come off as that annoying gf that you just want to yell "What can I do to make you happy" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Mar. 31 2004,13:57)]Enough with the attacks on CA... It is beginning to look like you are actively searching for something to be disgruntled about.

Where do you suppose the caravans would leave from? Anywhere? No, there would be a more specified structure, be it a marketlike structure or a storehouse. That and the little extra stuff like places to sleep perhaps. It is after all a 'state'-sponsored construction, not a personal venture. Consider it something to attract caravans.
Yeap. I agree were just being annoying... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif

[Dead Moroz]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ Mar. 31 2004,21:20)]A Caravan is a Building? I thought it was just a bunch of guys roaming around the landscape with stuff

Yes Yes Yes CARAVAN IS NOT A BUILDING http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif



Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Mar. 31 2004,22:57)]Enough with the attacks on CA... It is beginning to look like you are actively searching for something to be disgruntled about.

Where do you suppose the caravans would leave from? Anywhere? No, there would be a more specified structure, be it a marketlike structure or a storehouse. That and the little extra stuff like places to sleep perhaps. It is after all a 'state'-sponsored construction, not a personal venture. Consider it something to attract caravans.

I don't want to be boring and don't want to attack CA. They are great people making great job. I really respect those guys. But the more I know about RTW the less I'm sure it will be the best game ever. All that chosen assmen and British druids are ridiculous. And now we have caravan as building http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif CARAVAN IS NOT A BUILDING The building where caravan stops in town is named "Caravanserai" (or "Caravan Serai"). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

CA must fix this bug and name the building properly

[Nowake]

Look, I disagree Dead Moroz; and try to read the arguments.

The Karavanserai (Caravan Serai is not quite the proper spelling, even if it is composed from 2 words, caravan and saray) was the name given to large islamic inns. These inns were raised usually by the local amir or by the provinces government in order to facilitate the forming of a trading route. These were usualy not private property and often the poor and the dervish didn't had to pay for sleeping under its roof. But this was a specific muslim building. These Karavanserai and their sistem began to fully develop under the rule Harun al-Rasid.

But untill that date, the Caravan was on its own, so do speak. The Caravans were the ones which established their own places for stops and trade. Around these stops small trading posts would be formed.

Also, when one responsible government tries to form a caravan or a trading route, it must create a platform by selecting goods, merchants, assure some security, establish comercial treaties etc. This is all that makes an "official" trade of goods, an "official" caravan. And you would have to have some adminnistrators that must have an office from where to see to all that.



I think I took your rant way too serious http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Mar. 31 2004,13:57)]Enough with the attacks on CA... It is beginning to look like you are actively searching for something to be disgruntled about.

Where do you suppose the caravans would leave from? Anywhere? No, there would be a more specified structure, be it a marketlike structure or a storehouse. That and the little extra stuff like places to sleep perhaps. It is after all a 'state'-sponsored construction, not a personal venture. Consider it something to attract caravans.
LOL, Kraxis, it was a joke, I am always the one that defends CA when it comes hard on hard, and I WILL buy the game no matter what comes, fantasy units, caravans as buildings, whatever

Hell, I'll even go along and logically rape caravan to be a building, if that makes people happy The only thing will make me happy is when I finally have that darn game in my hands and stop talking about it and finally play it

[Dead Moroz]

Quote[/b] (Nowake @ April 01 2004,10:21)]But this was a specific muslim building.
You are not right. Caravanseraies exists since Akhamenids time and earlier. They just became very prevailing at Muslim times.

This is the quote from this site (http://www.kkhec.ac.ir/Iran%20information/bazaar%20history.htm):

"Certain significant and primary parts of a collective Bazaar, such as Rasteh, Chaharsou, the dome ceiling and Caravanserai go back to the oldest dates of history, The Bazaar plan in the form of Chaharsou (Crossway), with two roofed perpendicular corridors and ceramic bricks ceilings remain from the fourth millennium B.C. Archaeological discoveries provide reliable evidence of the remnants of the districts of tradesmen of two thousand years ago at Shush. Caravanserai whose construction principles led to the development of the city bazaar and some of its branches are very old. Sufficient historical evidence assure its existence at the edge of great Caravan Roads at the time of Akhamenids."

And one more time: CARAVAN IS NOT A BUILDING http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif

[The_Emperor]

Actually the Romans were very fond of Silk and that HAD to be Imported as the means to make it wasn't introduced into Europe.

Silk had to be imported from China, so trade routes from the East were very common.

[Nowake]

I'm starting to believe it's useless.


Understand that Caravan it's a generic name. It doesn't refer only to the camels that form it.Why is it that is so important the name of a trade route?

[Rosacrux]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Mar. 31 2004,13:57)]It is beginning to look like you are actively searching for something to be disgruntled about.
Yes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Dead Moroz]

Quote[/b] (Nowake @ April 01 2004,16:36)]Understand that Caravan it's a generic name. It doesn't refer only to the camels that form it.Why is it that is so important the name of a trade route?
Because CARAVAN IS NOT A BUILDING http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-builder.gif

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Dead Moroz @ April 01 2004,07:53)]Because CARAVAN IS NOT A BUILDING http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-builder.gif
Yup, and a merchant was a person not a building.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Go get a job, all of you... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Duke John]

Thanks for the laugh guys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif Assuming that you're indeed joking around. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_sandcastle.gif

...did this discussion also exist when the Crop Rotation "building" was put online? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_hide.gif

[Mouzafphaerre]

-
Hey guys,

I too have serious concerns about fantasy crap to amuse teeny-booper Hollywood clients (like the bull warrior, Pharaoic Egypt, the sickle et.) but please At last we'll have land trade and you're mockering with the details.

Remember, this is still a game and vastly depends on abstract symbols to represent real equivalents.

If we keep shooting everything in sight, then the devs won't take our SERIOUS criticisme granted.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif
_

[The Wizard]

Quote[/b] (Dead Moroz @ April 01 2004,11:27)]
Quote[/b] (Nowake @ April 01 2004,10:21)]But this was a specific muslim building.
You are not right. Caravanseraies exists since Akhamenids time and earlier. They just became very prevailing at Muslim times.

This is the quote from this site (http://www.kkhec.ac.ir/Iran%20information/bazaar%20history.htm):

"Certain significant and primary parts of a collective Bazaar, such as Rasteh, Chaharsou, the dome ceiling and Caravanserai go back to the oldest dates of history, The Bazaar plan in the form of Chaharsou (Crossway), with two roofed perpendicular corridors and ceramic bricks ceilings remain from the fourth millennium B.C. Archaeological discoveries provide reliable evidence of the remnants of the districts of tradesmen of two thousand years ago at Shush. Caravanserai whose construction principles led to the development of the city bazaar and some of its branches are very old. Sufficient historical evidence assure its existence at the edge of great Caravan Roads at the time of Akhamenids."

And one more time: CARAVAN IS NOT A BUILDING http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif
Psst... did anyone tell you that the word "Caravan Serai" is simply Arabic? Do you think that in Aramaic they would call it that?

Caravan may not be a building, but where do you post it?

Lookie here:

A caravan is 'built' in a settlement. Or at least, planned. When it reaches the top spot of the qeue, a window opens in the stragetical mode, and asks you between which settlements the caravan should travel. Simple. Easy.

Or another variation:


You are playing Macedonia. You ask for a trade route, or rather, caravan, to bring iron ore to your settlements at your border, to travel from a Parthian settlement to one of yours. You agree upon which goods should be transported in this caravan to and from Parthia. Parthia agrees to send you iron, in exchange for gold. Then, you both construct the caravan 'building' in the settlements which form the 'beginning' and 'end' of the caravan. Once completed in both settlements, the caravan commences, and travels between both these settlements.

A question is raised with this: Will the Seleucids, traditionally in between Macedonia and Parthia, benefit from the caravan passing through their lands?



~Wiz

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Mouzafphaerre @ April 01 2004,10:35)]-
Hey guys,

I too have serious concerns about fantasy crap to amuse teeny-booper Hollywood clients (like the bull warrior, Pharaoic Egypt, the sickle et.) but please At last we'll have land trade and you're mockering with the details.

Remember, this is still a game and vastly depends on abstract symbols to represent real equivalents.

If we keep shooting everything in sight, then the devs won't take our SERIOUS criticisme granted.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif
_
I agree. Mouzafphaerre is right.

[RZST]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 01 2004,11:05)]I agree. Mouzafphaerre is right.
this coming from a guy who complains about units? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[spmetla]

As much as a lot of you would like to have Caravans as something besides a building you need to remember that governments usually didn't sponsor their own Caravans. All that they could really do was try to attract traders and Caravans to their cities. How'd you do this? Have bazaars set aside specifically for them. Or make facilities to accomadate their camels at least.

What would you guys prefer? That you control individual caravans which would have passed in and out of your provinces within the season that is a turn? I'm just glad that land trade is being addressed and enhanced.

Having actual Caravan units would only be useful if the game were a RTS of a sort and you could raid them and steal all their stuff but seeing as this is a turn based strategy a building representing accomadations for Caravans is the best that we could really get and I for one am happy to see it, even if they call it Caravans instead of Caravan market accomadations or something like that.

[Captain Fishpants]

Perhaps if we'd used the name "Caravanserai" - a courtyard where caravans gather for the journey - you might have all been happier, but "caravan" is a shorter word, and therefore won out under WTO pixel-saving regulations. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

You're also assuming that all the factions/cultures can create Caravans - this isn't the case. The Romans, for example, don't get these trade buildings.

And on that cheery and slighty informative note, I'm off to get on with some more spin-doctoring on general's speeches to the troops...

[Dead Moroz]

Quote[/b] (The Wizard @ April 01 2004,19:49)]Psst... did anyone tell you that the word "Caravan Serai" is simply Arabic? Do you think that in Aramaic they would call it that?


"Caravanserai" is Persian word, not Arabic. Look here (http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/Caravansary)

OK. Now I stop complaining about name of this so called building. Halleluiah http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[The Wizard]

Yes, Persian after the Arabic conquest. It most certainly does not sound Aramaic nor Pahlavi.



~Wiz

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Ky Kiske @ April 01 2004,20:22)]
Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 01 2004,11:05)]I agree. Mouzafphaerre is right.
this coming from a guy who complains about units? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
I could answer. But I won't bother. I'll just ignore you... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-zzz.gif

[Kraxis]

I don't know if any of the 'attacks' were aimed at me, but I only intented to show that nobody complained at he merchant building. I like this Caravan (as I showed on page 1).

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ April 02 2004,01:41)]Perhaps if we'd used the name "Caravanserai" - a courtyard where caravans gather for the journey - you might have all been happier, but "caravan" is a shorter word, and therefore won out under WTO pixel-saving regulations. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
No, they wouldn't be happier, they wouldn't have nothing to argue about, my dear Captain Fishpants I only made a joke, but it seems I've started an avalanche Oh, dear… http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Nowake]

At least someone cleared the problem. I think from now on people will be less nit-picking http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Nowake @ April 03 2004,01:58)]At least someone cleared the problem. I think from now on people will be less nit-picking http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif
HA

Wishful thinking http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[The Wizard]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Duke John]

You guys fall over the smallest spelling mistake, but did you really fail to notice this?


Quote[/b] ]And on that cheery and slighty informative note, I'm off to get on with some more spin-doctoring on general's speeches to the troops...

Or is it really old news that it might be possible for your general to give a speech before battle commences. Might be even more interesting when you are in "first-person-mode", viewing through the generals eyes and running up and down your lines promising glory to your soldiers.

But perhaps it's more satisfying to write that "Caravanserai" is a Persian word.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Duke John @ April 04 2004,04:44)]You guys fall over the smallest spelling mistake, but did you really fail to notice this?


Quote[/b] ]And on that cheery and slighty informative note, I'm off to get on with some more spin-doctoring on general's speeches to the troops...

Or is it really old news that it might be possible for your general to give a speech before battle commences. Might be even more interesting when you are in "first-person-mode", viewing through the generals eyes and running up and down your lines promising glory to your soldiers.

But perhaps it's more satisfying to write that "Caravanserai" is a Persian word.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif
::check my pulse::

Naaaay, cool as a fish. Neat, perhaps, but that's all. And what I'm I suppose to tell the troops? "Fight bravely, my pixel cannon fodder, so I can show off at the Org; the screenshots I take will make you immortal"

And then they go "GAH We heard the screenshots take away your soul"

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Duke John @ April 04 2004,04:44)]You guys fall over the smallest spelling mistake, but did you really fail to notice this?


Quote[/b] ]And on that cheery and slighty informative note, I'm off to get on with some more spin-doctoring on general's speeches to the troops...

Or is it really old news that it might be possible for your general to give a speech before battle commences. Might be even more interesting when you are in "first-person-mode", viewing through the generals eyes and running up and down your lines promising glory to your soldiers.

But perhaps it's more satisfying to write that "Caravanserai" is a Persian word.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif
I hadn't noticed. Very interesting... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thinking.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (voigtkampf @ April 04 2004,08:36)]
Quote[/b] (Duke John @ April 04 2004,04:44)]You guys fall over the smallest spelling mistake, but did you really fail to notice this?


Quote[/b] ]And on that cheery and slighty informative note, I'm off to get on with some more spin-doctoring on general's speeches to the troops...

Or is it really old news that it might be possible for your general to give a speech before battle commences. Might be even more interesting when you are in "first-person-mode", viewing through the generals eyes and running up and down your lines promising glory to your soldiers.

But perhaps it's more satisfying to write that "Caravanserai" is a Persian word.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif
::check my pulse::

Naaaay, cool as a fish. Neat, perhaps, but that's all. And what I'm I suppose to tell the troops? "Fight bravely, my pixel cannon fodder, so I can show off at the Org; the screenshots I take will make you immortal"

And then they go "GAH We heard the screenshots take away your soul"
ROTFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif