proper faction colors

[Basil II]

hey guys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

i'm trying to change the faction colors to what they may have worn historically. anyone have any suggestions? im' particularly interested in spanish (i've read that they wored red a lot in battle) and byzantine colors.

Basil II


pax

[BalkanTourist]

To be honest with you colors in game are really irrelevant to my oppinion. Now the heraldic signs on the shields is a totally different story and that'd be the best to destinguish between different fractions. Just pick whatever color suits a fraction best. Also bordering fractions shouldn't have similar colors so that they can be easily distinguished on the map.

[BalkanTourist]

And hey, are you greek? Your name Basil II is a notorious one. I don't know how he is presented in greek history books but in my country he is Basil The Bulgarian Slayer. He earned that by blinding 15000 captured men in 1014. After the blinded army made it to the capital of Bulgaria - Skopie at that time, the Bulgarian czar Samuil died of a heart attack and Bulgaria fell under Byzantine rule in 1018 that lasted till 1185.
I just caught myself making a common mistake. Just like Seljuks shouldn't be called Turks, so Byzantines shouln't be called Greeks. My bad.

[Basil II]

No i'm spanish and i'm aware of the attrocities Bulgaroktonos commited (not a fan of his work). I had an ex-girlfriend who was bulgarian and she gave me the nickname because we fought a lot http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif . so i chose to use it for the forum considering its a historical name. if i've offended you or anyone else because of it i apologise its COMPLETELY unintentional.

pax

[Basil II]

but now that i think of it...hmm...anyone know if i can change my name without having to make a new account?

[Don Corleone]

Yes, email the honorable TosaInu san and let him know of your request http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif . I believe it'll require that you go through the password validation process again, but all in all, it's relatively painless, at least from the changee point of view. Don't know how tough it is for TosaInu san.

[Don Corleone]

All that being said, correct me if I'm wrong but color and heraldry really aren't related to a nation necessarily, but the nation took on the heraldry of the current monarch. For example, I believe the shield used for the English is the device of Richard the Lionhearted. While the Fleur-de-Leis was a popular device among French nobility (w/ aspirations to the throne) I always think of white with light blue as 'national' colors for the French. I agree with the sentiment, however, that bordering neighbors should have radically different colors. I also think black is a terrible color for any of the nations because unviewable land is also black.

My 2 cents.

[PanzerJaeger]

Is his name really that big of a deal, i mean were talking about someone who lived in th 1000's?? If people havent gotten over it by now, they just arent. Besides, Czars had people killed regularly, ALL the czars. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Basil II]

greetings, don

yeah i completely understand that no nation took on a national color pattern until the later centuries (i.e. age of enlightenment, napoleonic... fancy colored coats n' all that...correct me if i'm wrong http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif ) but wouldnt certain regions cling to a certain color scheme as identification? i used the spanish in a prior example: the castilians were said to wear red tunics and robes into combat to indentify themselves to those lands... i was just curious if any other nations were known to cling to a certain color.

pax

[BalkanTourist]

I am not offended by your name at all. I have no problems with it what so ever. I just thought you were Greek. And I am sure to the Greeks Basil II was a really great emperor. No one was perfect back in the days. There wasn't a Hague War Crimes Tribunal either http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . Come to think of it a Bulgarian khan - khan Krum in 814 captured the Byzantine Emperor at that time Niciphorus and beheaded him. He then wraped his scull with silver sheets and used it as a drinking cup http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif . Pretty cool, huh? That was back in the pagan days. Probably that's why the Byzantines hurried so much forcing the Bulgarians to convert to christianity http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

[Sir William Wallace]

Hi, guys, i am new here, just signed up a few minutes ago.. i was playing MTW VI today and i realized that the English colors were red and yellow. I found this quite odd, as i have always been accustomed to the English being red and white. However, the Polish are red and white,, but white being predominant, and there was another faction that was red and white, although it has slipped my mind at the moment. this faction i had forgotten also had a symbol that looked like it should be switched with the English. the Spanish colors i have no problem with,, red and yellow seem to fit.. however yellow and orange might look good too. The vikings are black and white and for some reason i think they should be purple and white,, or maybe purple and yellow like the minnesota vikings in the NFL..well, thast it for me right now. i have never played an online game before,, i just recently got STW WE and MTW VI. i am not a computer geek so there is a lot i need to learn.
thanks
good night http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Gregoshi]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Hi there Maximus. Thanks for joining us here at the Org. Don't be embarassed by your lack of knowledge. We have lots of people willing to help you along. Also consider that at one time we were all in your shoes...which reminds me I'd like to go bowling again sometime. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif Sorry, got distracted. Feel free to ask any questions you may have.

For starters, many answers can be found in froggy's excellent A Beginners Guide to MTW (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=9190) (also pinned at the top of this forum)

Another source for information is the
Table of Contents (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=3823).

See ya around and don't be a stranger.

[Fanty]

As for the Holy Roman Empire:

The Flag of the Empire was red with a white cross in it.
Looking similiar to a Danish one, but with the cross in the center and thicker cross:

Flag of Holy Roman Empire:
http://www.flaggenlexikon.de/dtlhrrd.gif

The flag of the Emperor is golden background with a black eagle in it.

Flag of the Holy Roman Emperor (The guy):
http://www.flaggenlexikon.de/dtlek.gif



While its gold (metallic), not yellow (Color). Specially important for shield: shiny golden shield with a black eagle (wich isnt shining).

The Imperial stormbanner has both flaggs below each other attached to the pole. Or a smaller version like this:
http://www.flaggenlexikon.de/dtlrstf.gif

Soldiers had been gold and black like in the game, but only, if they under direct command of the Emperor himself.
And the the only black parts on them is the eagle on the chest. the rest of their clothing is yellow (gold)


Sorry for the huge picture, but its hard to find such a thing in the net ;)

Ok, a coat of arms, weared by soldiers wich fight under imperial comand:

http://www.gewandverleih.de/christel/images/maenner/Mittelalter/VMM0039.JPG

Otherwise they would for example wear their provences colors. Blue/White for Bavarians for example. Red/white franconians, green/white Saxons....

Teutonic knights have their own colors. Black and white. Their flagg white with a black cross in it. Except the GRandmaster, his flagg assemles the one of the Emperor. Black and Gold.

Teutonic knights flag:
http://www.flaggenlexikon.de/dtldo.gif

Teutonic GRandmasters flag:
http://www.flaggenlexikon.de/dtldohm.gif


Teutonic order knights:
http://www.gledde.de/Die%20DeutschRitter/Webgestaltung/ita06019.jpg

[Lord Xelous]

I wrote a faction colour editing tool.

It's posted on the org in the alcamists lab.


Lord Xelous

[PanzerJaeger]

Great HRE pics, heres some more...

http://www.crystalinks.com/teutonicknightsfight.jpghttp://www.milminwh.com/images/Rogatchev/H007.14.B.jpghttp://www.michtoy.com/MTSCnewSite/figures_kits_folder/Pegaso/54mm_folder/54-161_1.jpg
http://www.armoury.co.uk/90mmknights1/modbigpics/k11big.gifhttp://www.hz-forum.de/images/antwerpen/418-6.jpghttp://www.goodrichtoysoldiers.com/sm-f03.jpg

i dont know how accurate those models are but they look great. i love those awesome helmits. I went a little crazy with the pics, i hope i havent broken any limits, if so sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Axeknight]

I thought it depended on the commander. The soldiers wore the heraldry and colours of the lord who raised that particular levy. So instead of faction colours, there were army colours.

However, I know nothing about anything http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Basil II]

some damn good pics do you have any that would be good referrence to other factions (byz, especially)ive been through every search engine and came up w/ nothing and i'm too cheap to cough up money for the osprey books lol. which reminds me...anyone know of a site w/ pics from those series posted?

pax

Basil II

[Fanty]

Zitat[/b] ] thought it depended on the commander. The soldiers wore the heraldry and colours of the lord who raised that particular levy. So instead of faction colours, there were army colours.

Well, thats right. the colors you wear depend on the warlord in whos name this war is done.

In case of the HRE, the use of imperial color is kind of rare.

Because of the relative high local independance.

It often happend that 2 cities () had been at war with each others.

Or just 2 knights (inlcuding their household troops, with up to 100 men)

Such internal wars, had been called in the HRE Landfriedensbruch (breaking of countrypeace) and COULD be punished by the emperor, who for the most time had no chance to stop this. (a quote from a pope who thought up the chances of raising a counterforce against the Mongols and let all countries pass though his mind was The Germans... at war as usual = The Germans cant help because they are buisy killing each others like allways. ;)

Thats colorfull. Each warlord with his own colors....

When however, a national army was raised, it marches under the imperial colors. And that is, however, a faction color.

Example:

If Saxony attacks Danmark, it attacks under the color of the Duke of Saxony. The HRE has nothing to do with this war then (sounds craisy, but was like this ;) )

If he would win, he would add Danmark to Saxony, not to the HRE. Indeed he would prefer, the Emperor sits far far away and never gets in contact with him. Most likely he wouldnt even stop to invade Danmark if his emperor would tell him to stop, he would declare independance and see, if the Emperor has any chance to assemble an Army against him. LOL

Even totaly craisy things happend like Saxony was allied with England (Traditional allies, since Saxon dukes frequently get their women from the doughters of Norman/English kings while Swabia was allied with France. And Saxons alongside English fight Swabians, together with French on the battlefield http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

Reality was so supercomplicated.....and specially in case of the HRE one must ask: was this a faction at all? ;)

But.. hehehe... when the things go bad....
Then magically the Duke of Saxony would remember that there is a thing called the Empire. He would demand the Emperor to emideately help him against the Danes....

When then, the Emperor invites all Dukes to a Reichstag (parliament) and asks(not cammand) for Armies to save the dumbarse Saxons who just went at war on their own....and the Dukes of the other provences say ok (not because they give a penny what happens to the Saxons, but because it couldbe that next time they are the ones who need help) then this assembled Army would march under imperial colors.
And each one is watching his back, because they dislike each others. Grrr Grrrr http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-argue.gif

And the same guys, now wearing the same coat of arms, will next week stand against each others on the field.

And the Emperor hammers his head at the wall http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif well, knowing that everyone only listens to him if they see an advantage in it.

Thats life ;)