Varangian guards...

[PseRamesses]

Just thought I´d share this info with you all.

Most of you know that the Byzantine emperor had vikings as his own bodyguards. The Varangian Guards in the game portrays this unit well in stats. They carried a huge doubble-axe, long hair and a ruby in their left ear as a sign of their status.
The commander of the guards was titled "akolouthos" and the guards consisted of 500 men. The word "varangian" derives from the "russian" word for the vikings, "varjager", which comes from the Swedish word "väringar". Even today we Swedes call conscripted soldiers "beväringar"
The emperor Constantin VII Portyrogennetos started this recruitment in the beginning of the 10th century from the vikings that ruled the Kiev dynasty but by the 12th the guards consisted mostly of English and west-European men.

That´s all folks

[lancelot]

I saw a program on tv a while ago, it showed large stones from northern europe going all the way down towards modern turkey. They had viking names on them-warriors who died on the journey I think. Quite weird seeing the stones so far away from where they come from...

[Nowake]

I think you sould have posted this in the Monastery.


Nevertheless, the varangians had alot of political power.The Akolouthos often had a big word to say in the making of new emperors.

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (lancelot @ April 01 2004,04:17)]I saw a program on tv a while ago, it showed large stones from northern europe going all the way down towards modern turkey. They had viking names on them-warriors who died on the journey I think. Quite weird seeing the stones so far away from where they come from...
In southern Thailand there is a cave on Phi Phi Island with wiking ships carved into the walls. I´ve been there and to tell you I was really spooked by this. How about that for a journey?

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (Nowake @ April 01 2004,08:01)]I think you sould have posted this in the Monastery.
Thanks for the tip Nowake. Wasn´t aware of that.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (PseRamesses @ April 01 2004,02:43)]Most of you know that the Byzantine emperor had vikings as his own bodyguards. The Varangian Guards in the game portrays this unit well in stats. They carried a huge doubble-axe, long hair and a ruby in their left ear as a sign of their status.
Are you sure about the double-axe?

In Osprey's Byzantine Armies 886-1118, the Varangian Guard is portraid as using a huge double-handed Viking Axe, but with a single blade, not a double-blade (so, not a double-axe). You can check the cover here (clik the picture to enlarge):

Osprey's Byzantine Armies 886-1118 (http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php?title=Q3062&ser=MAA)

[octavian]

yea, i just did a whole essay on the varangi, a really cool history. correct me if im wrong, but didn't the word varangian also have its meaning in oath takers, (btw, this is not a correction, just building on what you said)

[Hurin_Rules]

The 'Danish Axe', as the English used to call it, was indeed only single-bladed. You can see them in use at Hastings. So, I think it is likely that the Varangians only used single-bladed axes.

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 01 2004,10:26)]Are you sure about the double-axe?
A russian munk by the name of Nestor, living in Kiev, wrote a chronicle in the 12th century that we today refer to as the "Nestor chronicle". He here describe the emperors guards as carrying "a double bladed axe of considerable size, long spears and was wearing a azure-blue silk brocade with dragon patterns and a ruby earring".
I have three different history book series about the Swedish history and all refer to this chronicle as well as some from Byzan and that of the "arabic" envoy Ibn Fadlan so it seems accurate.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (PseRamesses @ April 01 2004,16:48)]
Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 01 2004,10:26)]Are you sure about the double-axe?
A russian munk by the name of Nestor, living in Kiev, wrote a chronicle in the 12th century that we today refer to as the "Nestor chronicle". He here describe the emperors guards as carrying "a double bladed axe of considerable size, long spears and was wearing a azure-blue silk brocade with dragon patterns and a ruby earring".
I have three different history book series about the Swedish history and all refer to this chronicle as well as some from Byzan and that of the "arabic" envoy Ibn Fadlan so it seems accurate.
I'm not doubting your sources, but you mentioned that the text says:

"a double bladed axe of considerable size, long spears and was wearing a azure-blue silk brocade with dragon patterns and a ruby earring".

Are you sure it didn't said:

"a double handed axe of considerable size, long spears and was wearing a azure-blue silk brocade with dragon patterns and a ruby earring".

Couldn't it just be a translation error?

Just some food for thought... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink.gif

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 01 2004,18:21)]
Quote[/b] (PseRamesses @ April 01 2004,16:48)]
Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 01 2004,10:26)]Are you sure about the double-axe?
A russian munk by the name of Nestor, living in Kiev, wrote a chronicle in the 12th century that we today refer to as the "Nestor chronicle". He here describe the emperors guards as carrying "a double bladed axe of considerable size, long spears and was wearing a azure-blue silk brocade with dragon patterns and a ruby earring".
I have three different history book series about the Swedish history and all refer to this chronicle as well as some from Byzan and that of the "arabic" envoy Ibn Fadlan so it seems accurate.
I'm not doubting your sources, but you mentioned that the text says:

"a double bladed axe of considerable size, long spears and was wearing a azure-blue silk brocade with dragon patterns and a ruby earring".

Are you sure it didn't said:

"a double handed axe of considerable size, long spears and was wearing a azure-blue silk brocade with dragon patterns and a ruby earring".

Couldn't it just be a translation error?

Just some food for thought... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink.gif
Well I checked again and it says "double-bladed" but hey it´s only history and this Nestor-guy lived som 300 years after the emergance of the varangoi so he was either right, wrong or painted a romantisised picture of theese "rough guys from the north".
If it´s true the Varangian guards maybee adopted the duble blade axe from the nubians or mameluks, I don´t know. I followed your link and thoose books shure looks interesting and the pic shurley shows a traditional Danish axe.

I´m shure glad I´m not a historian by profession

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (PseRamesses @ April 02 2004,04:43)]Well I checked again and it says "double-bladed"
I'm not saying you read it poorly. I'm saying that the book's translation might have been wrong somehow.


Quote[/b] ]but hey it´s only history and this Nestor-guy lived som 300 years after the emergance of the varangoi so he was either right, wrong or painted a romantisised picture of theese "rough guys from the north".
Of course he could have, although he might not have either.



Quote[/b] ]If it´s true the Varangian guards maybee adopted the duble blade axe from the nubians or mameluks, I don´t know. I followed your link and thoose books shure looks interesting and the pic shurley shows a traditional Danish axe.
Question: Did the Mamlukes or Nubians used double-bladed axes?

Those Osprey books are very good IMHO. I have gathered a lot of info from them. Some are better than others of course, depeding on subject and/or author. Graphical descriptions are surprisingly good. Some schematics are excellent relating to different types of clothing, armour, weaponery, etc...


Quote[/b] ]I´m shure glad I´m not a historian by profession HEHEHE http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif Sometimes their job must be very ambiguos indeed...

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 02 2004,08:15)]Question: Did the Mamlukes or Nubians used double-bladed axes?
Aren´t the abyssinian guards and Egyptian soldier with a double-bladed axe? Or is this wrong too? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

[octavian]

thats how it is shown in MTW, who knows, thats what popped into my mind first thing too.

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (carsolan @ April 06 2004,21:14)]thats how it is shown in MTW, who knows, thats what popped into my mind first thing too.
yes, and sice so many others things are researched correctly in the game one can only hope that the abyssinian guards are portrayed in the right maner.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (PseRamesses @ April 02 2004,10:54)]
Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 02 2004,08:15)]Question: Did the Mamlukes or Nubians used double-bladed axes?
Aren´t the abyssinian guards and Egyptian soldier with a double-bladed axe? Or is this wrong too? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif
In the descriptions, unit icons and in-battle graphics you have:

-Abyssinian Guard:

Description: Double-bladed axes.
Unit icons: Single-bladed axes.
In-battle graphics: Single-bladed axes.

-Mamluk Cavalry:

Description: Sigle-bladed axes.
Unit icons: Single-bladed axes.
In-battle graphics: Single-bladed axes.

So, what is right? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

I'm inclined to think the most accurate are the description images.

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 07 2004,19:06)]So, what is right? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif
Well guys if no one has any hard facts we could really be debating this for an eternity so let´s call it a day shall we?