Early Danish Strategies

[Hakeem928]

Ok, so here's the deal. I usually play as the Turkish when I campaign, but I really want to try a Catholic faction. I decided, after much deliberation, that I'd like to play the Danes, simply because I like Vikings

I tried starting off with the Danes on Early just the other day, but I ran into a major problem: money (more specifically, the lack thereof). I bribed the armies in Sweden and Norway, built a keep and Royal Palace in Denmark, trained a few troops, and there you have it... 8,000 florins gone.

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I should mention that my initial goal is to create a small empire based around the Baltic Sea, simply because I won't have to attack any other Catholic factions right away. With that in mind, any advice you could give me regarding the Danish opening moves on Early would be appreciated. Thanks in advance

[Bhruic]

If you want to avoid fighting other Catholic factions, the best thing to do is go for trade. Instead of upgrading buildings, first go for ships, and lots of them. Make sure you've got a merchant built in all three of your provinces (make sure to take Denmark too, you don't make much from farming, but it's got trade goods). By remaining at peace and trading with all of the northern empires, you should be rolling in the florins.

I, personally, always attack Germany, but if you want to avoid that, you can try snagging some of the neutral territory. Ireland almost never gets attacked in any of my games, and Scotland is often free as well. Or, if the eastern empires have been slow, you can grab some land and expand that way. If you feel really ambitious, you can build a fleet stretching through to Egypt, and take some of the holy land (alas, without crusades).

Bh

[Doug-Thompson]

I'd also recommend attacking Germany, the sooner the better..

The Pope won't threaten to excommunicate you for years, because he only warns big countries who are attacking little countries.

The Holy Roman Empire may be bigger, but its troops are spread all over the map, trying to avoid revolts and civil war. They can't effectively respond at first. Wait a few turns, and they can.

Stop and make peace when you finally get a Papal warning, then attack Sweden and Norway. Then build a trade empire. Building trade too early doesn't help, since few factions have harbors yet.

[Hakeem928]

Ok, well..... I must really suck, because I invaded Germany, conquered two provinces (Saxony and Brandenburg), and was swiftly counter-attacked and defeated. All within 15 years. I invaded Saxony with my King and 4 units of Vikings, and the Germans retreated. I invaded Brandenburg with that same force and moved my Prince with 4 units of Viking Landsmenn into Saxony, and the Germans retreated again. Then they came into Saxony with a full stack and kicked my ass. Where did I go wrong? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

I should also mention that by this time I was dangerously low on cash, I just can't seem to make any.

[bighairyman]

Breed like rabbits and ran wild all over Germany using your 100+ heirs. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Court Jester]

First, if you don't normally play Catholic factions, you should first try one that allows crusades, as they can be highly entertaining

However the Danes can be fun too because there is no obvious strategy. They do run out of money quickly, so you shouldn't bribe the Swedes and Norwegians. You should be able quickly to build a small force sufficient to take those provinces by force, consisting of a couple of archers, a couple vikings, and one or two of your princes. After that I prefer to expand by sea -- if you're quick enough, you can pick up some more rebel provinces e.g. Finland, Ireland.

Then, expand your fleet, trade, build your provinces (esp. Sweden) and you will soon have a powerful economy. Keep alert for rebelling provinces that you can bribe or invade, especially islands in the Med. After that, you'll be strong and rich enough that it's up to you. (note, sometimes the Italians attack you the moment your ships enter the Med, so do it in force.)

I personally prefer to wait to attack the HRE until I see that someone else has too -- inevitably the French or someone else will.

[katank]

I would say no bribing as money is way too low.

Sweden should be take immediately but Norway is poor and not even worth garrison costs before trade goes up although you do get valour bonused viks.

I would go for baltic first and take out the nov as I don't want them in the baltic or having vkings like I do.

Do opprtunistic attacks on HRE when he is involved with France and possibly another country.

Only try to hold Saxony and it keeps only a single border.

blaze a path of plunder and destruction into the heart of Germany including Swabia where the keep can be razed for moola.

this will also trigger a civil war and makes the ceasefire more likely.

warning: may produce very powerful France in which case you should grab as much of England as you can before the French do.

[Hakeem928]

Well I did much better on the second go around, I'm making 3.5k florins per turn and I've got control of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Saxony, Brandenburg, Ireland, and Wales. My fleet stretches from the Baltic down to the Adriatic, and I have merchants in all my provinces with trade goods.

I immediately attacked the HRE and in less than five turns I had plunged them into a civil war. The Polish and French grabbed a few provinces, but that was ok with me. France was too busy fighting Spain and England to worry about me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[The_678]

I have a strategy that I don't hear much here. After you have solidified Scandinavia, rush and build Huscarles A.S.A.P. THey are possibly the best unit in the game. THen attack and conquer England. This will give you only two borders and great ones at that. Denmark/Saxony and Wessex/Flanders. From there you are solid and can go wherever you please. Worked great for me last time I played. Before the Early Era was over I was producing Gold Armour and Weapon Huscarles out of Sweden. Pure Slaughter http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif


p.s. Denmark is my favourite faction and that is just one successful way to go.

[PseRamesses]

I´ve played the Danes, since I´m Swedish, on numerous occasions and this is what I usually do:
1. Build shipwright directly in Denmark since it´s the key to A/ defend you sprawling kingdom B/ dominate the Baltic region C/ get thoose much needed florins from trade.
2. Attack Sweden with two foot, two archers and the king and his first heir. Wait there for a couple of turns since you´ll need reinforcements to take Norway.
3. Take Norway.
4. In Sweden and Norway you concentrate on farms, mines, trading posts etc to generate cash. Building the fort there will let you build vikings in both provinces and in Norway they get a valour bonus.
5. Pump out ships from Denmark and build vinings in Sweden and Norway.

Now, here´s where I differ from others. Don´t attack HRE but go for Pomerania, Prussia, Lithuania, Livonia instead otherwise the Polish and Russians will then take Saxony from HRE. The Danes don´t get x-commed for taking other factions provs. I don´t know why but I´ve never been. Now you stop, fortify and build. Keep thoose shipyards busy and don´t worry of just using one unit to garrison each of the Baltic provs since you rule the sea there you can easily sallie a beseiged prov with no damage done.

Good luck

[Mouzafphaerre]

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This past thread might be of help too:

Best opening moves for the Danes (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=15639;hl=&quotopening+moves+for+the+danes%22)

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[VikingHorde]

I allways go first for sweden, then saxony, frisland, brandenburg, pomerania, prusia, lithuania and livonia. Those states are good for a trade empire. Last I take Norway.

[Random Ronin]

Well, I will admit that I have modified the campaigns a lot for MTW-VI, dramatically upgrading the little guys as to avoid that annoying rush issue. But from what I remember of the game before I started that, the best strategy is as follows,

Denmark's best day is in the early period, where they have access to the formidable true Vikings, as in the guys you see in the Vikings campaign (Karls, Landsmenn, Thralls, Huscarles...). Build up a large army of them in Denmark, at all costs, and that will discourage the Germans from attacking you, since it is easier and much more profitable to attack the French or Polish who are spread over a wider area. Denmark has only 1 border with Germany and if you practice a real neutral attitude, then it is in their interests to avoid a battle with a thousand bloody Vikings of skill and strength and kill those French or Polish armies of 100-300. after all, French and Polish provinces are much more productive than Denmark.

Trade is your most valuable source of money, so try to avoid wars with anyone at all (Except ronin provinces, because you can usually profit more by taking Sweden and Norway by force than bribery and the provinces of Livonia, Lithuania, and so on are all good for trade.) Last thing you need when you are bringing in 5,000-6,000 trade florin is to go to war with a guy who has ships all over the map. Not only do you lose the income of trade with the enemy's provinces, you lose your navy often, making further trade impossible.

REALLY IMPORTANT, Acumen is more important than loyalty in your governors, so always look for the highest acumen level when choosing a guy.

Don't actually make alliances, as you can trade with neutral powers and interestingly, they are less likely to attack you if they do not feel they have the element of surprise (They assuming that you, being allied to them, would not expect an attack from them.) Also, if you ally with two guys that then go to war, the guy you decide not to remain allied with may take that as a signal you intend to support the guy you remained friends with on the battlefield in the near future. They may react preemptively to take you out of the equation, fearing you. If you remain neutral completely, then people will actually ignore you, deciding it is better to leave well enough alone, making a small profit off taxing the imports of your goods which can add up to 100-200 bucks a turn for large empires.

The only Ally you should consider is the Papacy, for that will almost guarantee excommunication of anyone that attacks you; The Germans will almost never be able to attack you without that happening. Also, the best places to attack for Denmark are the Egyptian provinces of Tripoli and Antioch for their major income of trade potential, and an alliance with the pope will usually mean cheaper crusades, as well the valuable advantage of having to march through almost all of Europe to get there, swelling the ranks of your army with German and Hungarian volunteers, then lots of pillaging of Byzantine lands. Your influence rating, which should be high by virtue of your trading strength, will grow massive. If you maintain your neutrality, then the Egyptians shouldn't feel that it is your nature to attack them, and they will probably accept a ceasefire, trusting you to keep it. I have rarely had an enemy hold a grudge over anything for long.

Move your important buildings to Sweden or Norway ASAP, so that Denmark is somewhat expendable, incase the HRE does slam hard enough to take it. Sweden and Norway offer a formidable defensive terrain that the HRE will almost never beat. Meanwhile in occupied Denmark, the remains of your army are usually stuck in a castle that will last 2-3 years at least, forcing the Germans to either assault the castle or run away for fear of excommunication. Odds are that you will never permanently lose Denmark to the Germans if you aren't rushed too early.

The only truly disastrous thing that could happen is the Germans conquering France and Poland (The lands, not the people) as the only truly reliable distraction is lost.

Fortunately, by the time the early period is over, you should have managed to build up a large reserve of quality Vikings who will match or beat most infantry and cavalry units for the rest of the game. You should also have acquired a massive trade empire, the respect of all the kingdoms, an average income of 15,000+ florin, and best of all, you should be able to wage a expensive campaign of conquest with little to no trouble. All it takes is patience. The Danes are not for the players who like battling more than governing. You got to think like a politician, not a general.

This should fit into your plans of a small Baltic empire. Afterall, military conquest requires a good economy and the best economies are the ones made by peaceful means, not aggression. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[katank]

you don't get crusades though and excomm is based on relative size of factions, not alliance with pope. Too often I'm excommed and allied with him.

[Crash]

The Danes are not a true Catholic faction, although they are a lot of fun - one of my favorite factions. The true "Catholic" factions are the Italians, Spanish, French, HRE, Poles, Sicilians, Hungarians and English - IMO.

[nightcrawlerblue]

I just started a Danish campaign on expert where I'm trying to complete the game without going to war vs any catholic. If they attack me first or if they're excommunicated it's ok but I can't do it for any other reason. Ths means that I haven't been able to attack Germany for the first 100 turns or so.

Right now I'm at about 1150. I'm making about 600+ a turn with a modest army. I only have 2 provinces since one of the 3 starting ones revolted. I would be doing better if my kind wasn't so sick... I have heirs popping out everywhere...

[yonderboy]

I seem to completely agree w/ PseRamesses. I never attack the HRE. They're like a benevolent buffer-zone. They're too busy to care about Denmark, and the Danes are too tiny to really take them on. I simply take the uncontrolled provinces (Baltic states, Finland, Scotland, etc...). Then, I follow what most ppl say and build up my finances and Viking army. Very powerful potential

[mbrasher1]

You can also go north. Invade Sweden and then Norway, in succession. "But don't I have to wait for a garrison?" No.

Invade and then invade the next province. You will experience rebellions, but as long as you are situated to beat them, you move your entire army (less a holding force in Denmark) between Sweden and Denmark. There will be a rebellion in the OTHER nonoccupied province for several turns, but eventually you will possess two good provinces and you will not have to build up to get them. Plus it is good experience for your princes to whip superior forces fighting on the defensive. Bring archers . . .

I find that the Germans can be caught with their pants down with a good force of Danish vikes, but eventually the weight of the German numbers will crush you. Unless you are getting help from France, Poland, Italians, Hungarians, or English, they get you.

[VikingHorde]

I never go for Norway right away. In order to get a good income from Norway, you need trade. Sweden is a most. I allway make it the constantinopel of the north. The HRE is veak, so taking the north is not a problem IMO. They are mostly to bussy with other factions and viking units are very good in the start. I don't attack other factions, but go after rebels.

[Lord Ovaat]

Yes, yes, yes. As PSERAMESSES has said, first Sweden, then Norway, then boats, boats, boats. Then the WORLD http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-leer.gif

[Bhruic]

Hmm, I'm surprised by the people who have trouble invading the HRE. I usually take Sweden first (it's economically sound), then go straight for the HRE. They might have more provinces, but they've got large borders. They can't strip them to focus on me or their neighbours will attack them. So at best they can focus a small percentage my way. And with my superior units (vikings will beat any of their early units), it's never really a challenge. Heck, I -want- them to invade me, they lose a lot of units, and I can attack them easier.

I agree that the HRE is a good "buffer", but at the same time, they have valuable provinces that are easy to take and defend. Plus I want that iron. :)

Bh

[Durruti]

Sweden is the moneymaker. Later as you use the cheap longboats you make even more $$$. Finally, you buy Switzerland for the Swiss Halberds. Once, playing on High, I bought Constantinople-made lots of $$, but was overwhelmed by attacks by 4 bordering nations.

[NewJeffCT]

I would never bribe Sweden & Norway. I invade them - I use some archers to wear down the vikings in both provinces and then finish them off with a flank charge of royal knights while your regular infantry (spearman and/or urban militia) are engaging them up front

(Merc mounted crossbows and horse archers are great against vikings, too, if you can get them...)

From there, I go boat crazy and build trade and try to snatch rebel territories that are valuable like Livonia, Lithuania, Prussia, Pomerania, Ireland (for the gallowglasses)...

Denmark is a great choke point, though. Once you get loyalty up in Sweden & Norway, you only need 100 men in each as a garrison and you concentrate your big guns in Denmark.

[VikingHorde]

I allways take sweden with the kings royal knight alone. I have no problems with 21 knights vs. 120 vikings. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[NewJeffCT]

Quote[/b] (VikingHorde @ April 06 2004,13:04)]I allways take sweden with the kings royal knight alone. I have no problems with 21 knights vs. 120 vikings. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Yes, but then you get 300 vikings of them invading from Norway next turn... too much for just about any group of 21 knights.

[Lord Ovaat]

After posting in this thread this morning, I got to thinkin' about my various campaigns with the Danes. It's always been pretty easy to win, IF I can get through the money crunch the first 30-40 years. One of my biggest expenses has always been my nymphomaniac queen. She breeds like a rabbit. I always seem to end up with a stack of royal knights who are so disloyal and incompetent I can never let them out of the King's sight. With all other factions, I enjoy getting the "free" troops, and have little trouble affording their room, board, college, etc. Am I the only one having this problem? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

[makkyo]

you can go several way with the danish, as they are bordered by the HRE and some easy rebel provinces. My way is to go up and conquor the Rebel Provinces up north. They won't rebel as long as you're not ex-communitated by the pope... I hate that guy... But get a small (but not too small mind you) garison in you're homeland to fend off the massive HRE. Hike up the taxes while you build up a large navy (you get some longboats early on) and start you're trading. If you want you can do a naval invasion of Scotland and the Baltic States and establish yourself a nice little navayu empire. You're trade should bring in a ton of florins, and then try to invade the east. Leave all catholic factions alone to avoid bad relations with well... everybody catholic. By fighting Rebels and Orthodox and Muslim facctions you gain great favor from the Church and you would even recieve money from the pope. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif
If you did everything right.... you should have lands in Scotland, all the Baltic states, and the Far East. You can build your land forces out there and conquor every non-catholic faction, along with the muslims in spain if you go through Africa or an other massive naval invasion. Once you have all of this under you're rule the rest should be a piece of cake because you already have a TON of land in the east and north africa... and the Bizantines (pope won't care if you fight them). The rest will only be a matter of time....

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (Lord Ovaat @ April 06 2004,15:32)]One of my biggest expenses has always been my nymphomaniac queen. She breeds like a rabbit. I always seem to end up with a stack of royal knights who are so disloyal and incompetent I can never let them out of the King's sight. With all other factions, I enjoy getting the "free" troops, and have little trouble affording their room, board, college, etc. Am I the only one having this problem? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif
Unfortunately, no. The only cure for a nymphomaniac -- marrying her -- does not appear to work in Denmark.

[gaelic cowboy]

Try and create some kind of north sea empire with Ireland England ,Scandinavia ,Friesland ,Saxony and ,Pomerania also the baltic states like livonia lithunia finland. Make good use of trade and agents as at least 2 to 3 larger powers will develop south of you.

[katank]

Quote[/b] ]I always seem to end up with a stack of royal knights who are so disloyal and incompetent I can never let them out of the King's sight. With all other factions, I enjoy getting the "free" troops, and have little trouble affording their room, board, college, etc. Am I the only one having this problem?

nope, the key is to keep em with your king and take over as much as possible by liberal use of these RKs before you king dies as the starting one is the best you're likely to get.

Note: 16 RKs kick some really booty in any era. frontally charge the HRE peasant armies and watch all of em melt away.

melt, I say http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif