Early French Strategy

[TinCow]

I'm sure this probably isn't new, but I've seen several posts in the last few months about how to deal with the early French starting position. I recently started a new Expert, Early French GA campaign in order to try and achieve the Krak, something I failed at in my previous French GA campaign. Last time I waited for a good 5-6 years to build an army in order to assault the English holdings on the continent. This worked fine, but the English spewed forth tons of Hobilars in the south and tons of Archers in Wessex which caused me serious casualties in the long run. By the time I finished them off and got my economy rumbling along to launch a crusade and build a transport fleet to support it, I was out of time and wouldn't have been able to complete the Krak (not to mention the fact that my Crusade failed).

This time, I went for a gamble and attacked the English on my very first turn... and it went brilliantly. You start with a good (4* I believe) general in Brittainy. Between his unit and the archers stationed there, I easily took Normandy from the 0* archer and peasant unit stationed there. I then gave him the Normandy title which boosted him to 5* and moved him to Flanders to protect against a force coming from Wessex. At the same time I attacked with my King, a spear unit and archers into Anjou. I cannot emphasize enough just how much Royal Knights can decimate an enemy force without any armored or armor piercing troops. The next turn I moved on to the southern English province and did the same. All of France united in two turns. The third year the English King attacked my 5* general and was killed. At the same time I successfully allied with the HRE (protecting my flank) and bribed the Welsh longbow army. Two years after that, the English attacked my Welsh army and managed to get their King and only heir killed in the process, thus eliminating their faction. I then bribed Wessex and took Mercia and Northumbria easily. All of France and England (except Scotland) were then in my hands 10 years after the start, this gave me an excellent chance to launch a crusade pumped up with 4 archers, 4 spears and tons of mercenaries which succeeded and now holds Tripoli comfortably (with my former 5* general who unfortunately started drinking very quickly and is now a 3* always drunk).

The lesson from all this? Despite the fact that it looks like you have nothing to start with, the English have even less. Between the decent general and your King and heir royal knights units, you should be able to cut through the English continental forces with ease. Don't be intimidated, go right after them at the start, you won't be sorry. I certainly got lucky with the elimination of the English faction, but unification of France in two years would have made it very easy anyway.

[Fragony]

If you want the Krak you have to secure your homelands first. Kick out the english out of france asap. They will not leave you alone, but you will have better economy and can produce better troops. Forget about knights in Toulouse when you start, build ships instead. You will have plenty of time to make a crusade with naval support before you hit the high period. When you launch a crusade, be sure to be a byzantine allie, if you allready launched it and the byzantines grab it first they give it away for free.

sidenote: France on GA is the best you will get out of this game, you are going to have a shitload of fun.

[katank]

I agree with this although I tend to go after Aquitaine first.

Out of english continental possesions, they can only produce troops at Aquitaine.

at start, I send all of Toulouse and Britanny with 5* UM at Aquitaine.

I send rest at Anjou led by King.

leave peasant garrison in Flanders.

build UM in Ile de France, gets 5* hero.

take normandy next turn.

pump peasants like mad for pacifying.

BTW, should have queued Flanders for inn before the watch towers like in other provinces.

Thus, now the English are outta da continent and inn is complete.

Hire up crap load of mercs, place him under da 5* in Flanders and send him to Wessex.

Preferably, sync this with invasion from Wales. You did bribe those precious longbows, didn't ya?

This for very easy game.

Note: Can't realistically take out all 3 english possesions first year. A bit too risky.

Leaving Anjou would mean retreat and hence no ransom.

Aquitaine is troop production for them so leaving Noramndy for last is best.

BTW, you don't really need +1* that badly. 1 extra brit hobilar hurts you more.

[PseRamesses]

TinCow,
Didn´t you get x-commed for this prolonged action? I usually take all three English provs in two turns to avoid that.

[TinCow]

Quote[/b] (PseRamesses @ April 07 2004,05:24)]TinCow,
Didn´t you get x-commed for this prolonged action? I usually take all three English provs in two turns to avoid that.
Not only did I not get excommed, I didn't even get a warning. Keep in mind I only took over 3 English provinces. Two the first turn would have given me a 5 to 4 territory advantage which was not enough to activate the 2:1 ratio that gives a warning. The next turn I took 1 which gave me 6 to 3. However, from there I didn't attack the English. Like I said, they attacked me twice from Wessex, losing their King and all heirs in the process and turning rebel. The rest was just rebel cleanup.

Thinking back, I think katank is right. Aquitane is certainly a more important objective and I would go after that first turn if I did it again.

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (TinCow @ April 07 2004,07:21)]Thinking back, I think katank is right. Aquitane is certainly a more important objective and I would go after that first turn if I did it again.
Yup, his advice are usually good.

Regarding the x-com. That´s the reason I take all three in a blitz and leave one stack in Flanders (if you haven´t removed all landbgidges which I have) for protection. It will only take you some 20 years to build up for this and still leave room for ships in Provence to meet the Krak-objective in Tripoli. Good luck

[nick_maxell]

I just tried katanks strategy on hard and it rocks - interesting small battles where you really need to draw those hobbylars into any wood avaiable but I had to worry more than once about loosing my king before first heir was avaiable - but he got the +3 attacker vize after the 4th battle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif so I kept using him. Guess I got lucky with merc too as they had HA and ital inf to go with two Alans so, excom as I was because of seiging Aquitagne, I didn t stop and the English were gone by 1098 - downside is the economy and loyalty when the king will die as I built units like crazy to prevent a spanish crusade (hopefully my king will be dead before the germans can build chapterhouse) I kept myself floating with the plunder and ransom I got and should be able to rebuild economy given no rebellions.
I never played the french before b/c of lack of unique units but getting so big so fast makes them interesting.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

nick

[katank]

nice to see it worked for you.

the beauty is that fulfilling the krak is fairly easy due to size. BTW, I often kill the HRE if I'm excommed.

My reasoning goes as follows: if I'm excommed anyhow, the popester can't be any more pissed with me.

instead of disbanding those mercs, why not charge my best general at the HRE to eliminate a big threat?

lack of unique units does suck although you can say hobilars are unique to EF, that is.

the GAs more than makes up for it though.

I've actually managed to not get excommed once and killed the English.

The trick is to use the 5* you sent to Flanders to lead merc force into wessex when you hit Normandy.

Collect your warning and go on to Mercia and Northumbria ASAP.

swift stormings will help in not getting excommed. In these cases, I never starve them out.

However, if excommed, I don't see a problem. No one except the Spanish can muster a crusade around this time and this is if they tech straight for it which they rarely do. I simply use it as an excuse to carry the momentum onto the HRE.

however, too big too fast means more factions attacking me and in retribution I always wipe them out or confine them to a single province. Then I have the classical I wanted to do a peaceful GA game but they made me conquer the world in 80 turns, I swear http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif

[nick_maxell]

yep katank - I tried in domination game just out of interest - could not avoid excom by storming castle because I was not sure if I would have enough troops left to avoid rebellion and could not reenforce because Aragon was looking north (the Spanish invaded them next turn so I could have stormed and reenforce) - I went with my king to Wessex as he was better with the +3 attack than the 5 star - I used that one to guard against Aragon - I played a bit longer and economy is no problem at all have not even a port build yet but have a good income by micromanagement and improoving the best farming provinces (got lucky with 5 acumen peasants http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif ) - HRE and Spain are tame and my borders are now secure, so even if GA game I should have plenty of time and money. Can only recommend that strategy
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

nick

PS: right hobbys are unique EF but all can build their replacement soon so they are only useful in the first 20 years or so as they get their backside handed to them if not used in flanking later (but very useful in desert and against missle troops) I agree with the popster not beeing able to be more pissed - in my case he allied he he (about 5 turns after excom and I m still a heretic) - must be the ton of influence I got for liberating 6 provinces http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[katank]

true that hobbys get replaced. they still very useful for early rush though.

I have little military after my rushing is finished and I only keep troops for defense.

BTW, I routinely get donations from the holy father arrive with the excomm threat when playing as the french and using this strat. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[VikingHorde]

I allway take out the english provinces in france the first turn. Then I only have to think about Wessex.

[katank]

all of them? I find you don't quite have enough troops to do so first turn.

[Fragony]

Do not forget that the french have a semi-unique unit in the gendarmes as well. I love them, when you hit late you can build massive armies with ultra heavy cavalry. You could also consider the bonussed knights from toullouse as unique, with a master horse breeder you get them with +2 valour out of the box, making them the best cavalry in the game.

[Bhruic]

Not entirely sure how you came to that conclusion. Just a quick check showed that the Lancer, even with no valor, still beats a +2 valor Gendarmes. Considering you need Master Horse Breeder, you're going to get a +1 valor. And you also need Master Armorer, so you get +3 armor.

Basically, that means that the Lancer is going to kick a Gendarmes' butt. And you can get Lancers in High.

Plus, there appears to be other mounted units that are better than Gendarmes as well.

Bh

[Fragony]

Quote[/b] (Fragony @ April 11 2004,07:30)]You could also consider the bonussed knights from toullouse as unique, with a master horse breeder you get them with +2 valour out of the box, making them the best cavalry in the game.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

[Count Fudgula]

I'm also in favour of an ultra aggressive start as the French. Securing the French mainland is very important early on. Taking on small continental based English armies with similar or even smaller armies is quite challenging and very risky, but you've gotta do it to have a strong base of operations for the rest of the game.

Secure Flanders as best you can, you don't need to push north into Wessex until much later on. I found that after a few years of peace (and possibly a King croaking) the English completely forgot about being at war with me. They then turned into very useful trading partners.

I tend to use Toulouse as my Mediterreanean ship building port early on.

Your Royal Knights are absolutely critical early on, as has been pointed out earlier. They stomp everything else, but you have to be careful you don't lose too many. Your King's unit automatically replenishes and therefore is extremely useful. Do not be afraid to send him into the fray, he'll more than likely be your best fighter, and he'll also enjoy the kind of invulnerability talent other opposing Kings seem to always get. More importantly, a good fighting King will produce good fighting Princes, which means instant strong generals.

The Krak des Chevaliers GA goal is tricky, very tricky. I sent a crazy crusade all the way from Brittany across Europe, around the north of the Black Sea into Syria and over to Tripoli. It was in ribbons by the time it had reached Tripoli, but I had just completed the sea route the turn before. Enormous hi-tech reinforcement army steps off the cruise ships to greet small band of sandblasted sun burnt crusaders struggling over a sand dune, "We've been waiting on this beach for ages, what took you so long?".

Keeping the sea route open allowed more reinforcements to provide backup while the citadel was being built and troop production buildings had to be put on the back-burner.

[katank]

yep, I never found overland crusades by themselves to be viable.

I always seem to need sea borne reinforcements as well. Also, sometimes I will launch the crusade by sea simply because it takes so long over land. The only time you’ll ever want to go over land IMHO is when you want to suck up your catholic neighbor’s troops. However, since the Krak is serious business, I wouldn’t mess with overland to Tripoli most of the time.

[VikingHorde]

Quote[/b] (katank @ April 10 2004,23:19)]all of them? I find you don't quite have enough troops to do so first turn.
I have just enough trops to do so. Two provinces retreat and toluse is taken by battle. This gives a good ransom. It's is risky, but posible. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[katank]

toulouse? you mean Aquitaine?

[VikingHorde]

Quote[/b] (katank @ April 11 2004,18:08)]toulouse? you mean Aquitaine?
Ups, sorry. Aquitaine of course. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif