Pergamum (Pergamon)

[Boulis]

Am I right to understand that the devs over at CA had a difficult time coming up with a satisfactory list of "Roman-era" factions (playable or not, locked or not -- I won't throw my hat into THAT ring...yet)?

Am I further right in assuming that the final list of factions has yet to be decided?

If I am in error then fine, but if there is indeed a paucity of factions, let me suggest:

Pergamum of the Attalid Dynasty

A (more or less) legitimate Hellenistic "Successor Kingdom" that would fit into CA's plans (rumored) of improving in-game diplomacy, since the Attalids had a VERY pro-Roman foreign policy. For example, the Romans never conquered it. The kingdom was bequeathed to them by the last Attalid king in 133 B.C.E.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/siteindex?lookup=Pergamon

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/P/Pergamum.asp

I read somewhere (probably over at the .com) that the Greek Leagues would be a faction and we had a thread here over at the Org that listed the proposed factions and it all looked good, no complaints. However, if they are indeed still looking (and I seriously doubt that this late in the game but who knows?) Pergamum is a fine addition, IMHO.

[Scipio]

Ah yes Pergemon, it should for sure be a city but I dunno a faction... It would be nice to see the 3d historic Pergemon. It is a beautiful place atop a hill (if I racall)

[Spino]

Pergamon will probably be featured as a prosperous city state in RTW but chances are it will be treated as part of a 'neutral' or 'rebel' faction. Basically I don't think there's any chance that Pergamon will appear as a faction (major or minor). I believe Pontus, Armenia and The Seleucid Empire are the only factions that begin the grand campaign with territories in Asia Minor. However, there will be a 'Greek City States' faction which will encompass both the Achaean & Aetolian Leagues and Epirus. Perhaps CA will include Pergamon and its surrounding territory in the Greek City States faction?

[The Wizard]

You forget Parthia, and if we are talking of Hellenistic states, the Seleucid empire, Antigonid empire (Makedon) are both active in Asia Minor. Makedon held Epirus, but never succeeded in reconquering Achaea.

I think it would be nice as a starting city and minor power. Pontus left a greater impression as a 'minor' Hellenistic state.



~Wiz

[Boulis]

I would agree that the Pontic kingdom has a more legitimate right to be included as an outright faction than Pergamon does. However, my impression was that both Pontus and Armenia are already minor factions in the tentative (nothing is certain until the game comes out I guess) list over at the .com. Can someone confirm that?

But I was just thinking that if they needed an extra one (I recently read somewhere that they were thinking of adding one), then they could do a lot worse than Pergamon, which was a clear-cut "Successor Kingdom" in any case.

Of course, that would make Asia Minor a pretty crowded place but hey, those are the breaks...

[The Wizard]

Well, Armenia made quite the impression under Tigran, as part of the Mithridatic Alliance against Rome. Still, Tigran was just a vassal of the Arsacid.

[Boulis]

All this discussion is no doubt academic since I think the final decisions on the factions in the game have been made but...

I was going through the (somewhat old) and admittedly speculative thread on the the major and minor factions, titled Official, only 11 factions playable and came across someone's pretty good guess (based on an old screenshot) that LYDIA would be a faction...

Now we can talk all day about Pontus, Armenia, Pergamon, etc., but I think we can all agree that Pergamon is AT LEAST a better choice than Lydia in a game about Roman expansion...

http://www.strategyinformer.com/misc....ar,50,1 (http://www.strategyinformer.com/misc/screenshot-viewer.shtml?rometotalwar,50,1)

Wizard you were right to point out that that is an old screenshot (thankfully) but it does look like that is Lydia tucked away there in the right corner. If so, it can't be that much work to "move" that civ's geographic center two "provinces" (or whatever they're called in the new game) north and get Pergamon instead...anything's better than Lydia.

[Sir Robin]

The factions are listed in the preview from CGW...

"And here they are in particular order..."

The House of Julii
The House of Brutii
The House of Scipii
The Senate and the People of Rome
Macedon
Egypt
Seleucid Empire
Carthage
Parthia
Pontus
Gaul
Germania
Britannia
Armenia
Dacia
The Greek Cities
Numidia
Scythia
Iberia
Thrace

[Boulis]

If this is, indeed, the final list, I think it looks very good. I know some have talked about the similarity between Thracians, Dacians, and Illyrians (maybe even the Scythians are also a related cultural group to the preceding), but I think enough differences exist to make a good argument for separation. Certainly, the same point can be put forward regarding the Britons/Gauls (Celtic) and, again, arguments for separation abound.

Personally, I think it's a little "barbarian-heavy" but so was Roman history I guess -- in any case, that probably aids in establishing some good variety among military units.

Still, it would have been nice to have Pergamon as well (a notorious Roman collaborator) to maybe round out the list with some more "centralized" civs/kingdoms but, hey, it still looks great overall...some might even tell me that the "barbarian" element is under-represented, I'm sure.

Sir Robin,

Was that a typo when you typed "particular order" rather than "no particular order" or is CGW implying that that is the progression by which we will unlock the various factions?

[The Wizard]

It's a typo. I've seen the scan and it says "... no particular order."

Do not worry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif



~Wiz

[Sir Robin]

I put in particular order because it is verbatim from the review.

Hopefully RTW will be moddable enough that we can replace existing factions with some of our own creation.

[Spino]

Quote[/b] ]I put in particular order because it is verbatim from the review.

Hopefully RTW will be moddable enough that we can replace existing factions with some of our own creation.

Replace? With respect to modding the campaign game the first order of business is modify the current factions and add some more http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif