American Revolution

[Sir Zack de Caldicot]

American Revolution
____
Total War

(introduction to come)
Q & A

1.) What will the Timeline of this mod be?



I think that we will have to expand this timeline some what to make the game play longer.
The American Revolution was only 8 years (1775-1783)

2.) What will be the active faction's

1 \
2 \
3 \
4 | Min amount of ACTIVE Factions
5 /
6 /
7 /
8 /

The game requires 8 ACTIVE, or playable, Factions to run.

Minor Factions ( If any)






3.) What will the Units Be?

If you have any idea's for units, post them here I need as many as I can.
Making the units graphics will take a long time to create and model. I believe that my
skills are nearing the point where I can start to create Unit BIF's
However, these will take a LONG TIME, so any contributions are welcome.

4.) Famous Hero's and Generals?
As many as you can think of

5.) Rulers Title? [/b}
Like King, Emperor etc. Also the rulers names of the time.

[B] 6.)New Interface art

Does anybody know the size that the Interface has to be, like the main menu and the sub-menus.
I will be wanting a new interface, as I believe that this personalizes the mod some what.

7.) A link to a picture of an apropriate campaign map of the america's

8.) Any Links to other sites related to The American Revolution?

This would be greatly welcomed

9.) Anything Else I Forgot

I want this mod to come through as I have recently gotten interested in this era of history and believe this would be a good mod. However, the mod might be expanded to include the discovery of the america's


This mod will only come through if the community helps by answering the above questions.

This post will be updated whenever new information is obtained. It will also have a status one the mod is begun.

I have already made another install of MTW VI and got a new Icon lol

PS: Moderstors, can you please leave this post in the EH ( not the alchemist)

[jkaney55]

1-Make the time line start long before the historical
event, as there were several events leading
up to the actual war. I'd suggest something like:
1715-1840 (after all, one small event can change
the course of history).

2- -Anti-England Colonies
-Pro- England Colonies
-England
-France
-Spain (later appearance of Mexico)
- several independent nations as Native Tribes
( maybe a couple being playable, but their
challenge is to unite tribes for common cause,
or they could aid the Americans, or aid the British).

3- units may very big here, all depending on how you will work out the factions...
I'd say different raiding parties for natives:ie:
-some function like battlefield ninja
-some similar to skirmishers (many kinds)
for variances have some with axes, some with bows, some mixed, and some with muskets.

Americans:
-skirmishers, several kinds
-a few regimental forces
-a couple Calvary

British:
-Calvary
-regiments.

some units to think about:
- minute men
- night riders
- militia


4&5- well I would just go in a search box...
Patrick Henry
Samuel Adams
John Adams
Ethan Allen
Benedict Arnold
John Hancock
Thomas Jefferson
Alexander Hamilton
James Madison
Thomas Paine
Nathan Hale
John Paul Jones
George Washington

heres a good site:
Biography: Early Americans (http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/B/)

and others :

RevWar.net

http://www.collaboratory.nunet.net/nssd112....le.html (http://www.collaboratory.nunet.net/nssd112/oakterrace/imc/revwarpeople.html)


http://www.multied.com/Revolt/battles.html




hope this little bit gives some help...

[Sir Zack de Caldicot]

Thanks for that great and useful information jkaney55 What do you think the Pro-English and anti-English factions should be called? The other sites you listed were amazing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Sir Zack de Caldicot]

I've found a map of the positioning of the Colonies at the time to help with province ownership and army placement. I'm trying to get the campaignmap up and running first to begin work. Does anybody have a campaignmap suitable picture of the america's.

PS: whats the max amount of provinces and sea regions allowed?

The Map

http://www.hammondmap.com/sites/hammond/graphics/ahmrev.gif

[mercian billman]

Long post warning

For a timeline I would suggest 1754-1815, this would cover the French Indian War, and the War of 1812, as well as the war for independence. The reason I would use this timeline is because the French Indian War cost the Crown a lot of money. To help pay for the cost of the war the Crown decided to tax colonials but refused to allow them parlimentary representation. The war of 1812 would secured American independence so it seems like a fitting end to me.

Choosing active factions would be dificult. For one the colonies were independent of each other but they operated as if they were one country. I would have the Americans start off with the middle colonies, the Brits would hold the southern colonies, New England, Canada and their Carribean colonies. Also the Spanish would hold Florida, their Carribean colonies and Mexico. The French would hold their Carribean colonies. Perhaps the Dutch could be included they did have some Carribean colonies. In addition to this there would need to be three native tribes. The Iroqouis in the North, the Cherokee and Seminoles could be in the South East. There were more Indian tribes that could be included such as the Objiwa, Creek, Chickasaw etc.

This gives us 8 factions.
1 Americans
2 British
3 French
4 Spanish
5 Dutch
6 Iroquis
7 Cherokee
8 Seminoles

The Portugeese could also be included since they held Brazil.

For units I would place certain restrictions on each faction.

1. Americans may recruit mercenaries but their units would cost less and would take at most no more than a year to make.
2. The British would be able to build Hessian mercenaries but the Hessians would cost twice as much as British troops. When the British raise troops it should take at least two (but no more than four) years to build them, this would make the hiring of Hessians more attractive. The British would also be allowed to raise loyalist troops within one year but the loyalist should be inferior in qaulity to the British and Hessians.
3, 4, and 5. The French, Spanish and Dutch would have the same rules as the British except they cannot build Hessians and their loyalist would be called 'native troops' and they would be inferior to their regulars.
6, 7, and 8. The Iroquis, Cherokee, and Seminoles would be like the Vikings of VI. They're troops would be of a higher qaulity but to offset this advantage their units would be smaller and their lands would not generate as much income, they would also recieve a raiding bonus.

It's hard for me to come up with a list of Generals right now just for the American Revolution, let alone the French Idian Wars, and War of 1812, I'll post more in a few days.

[mercian billman]

Here's a map of N. America which does not include the Western half or the Carribean.

For Sea regions I would divde the Eastern Sea board into 3-4 regions and give each Carribean Island it's own sea region.

http://www.csulb.edu/projects/ais/nae/chapter_1/001_002_1.55.jpg

[jkaney55]

You could also incorporate a few of these structures (which would be region sensitive like the mines and armories in STW):

Northern (Great lakes areas like Mid West USA and Canada)
-Fur trading Forts (add to income like a port, as well as
providing a simple walled defense)

Eastern Seaboard
- Port Hubs (the creation of larger ships)
- Northern areas (ie:Boston) make cheaper ships,
or more powerful ones.

South
- Plantation (income boost with agriculture)

hmm... thought I had more earlier, I'll post them later...

[mercian billman]

Here's a list of the British Regiments in N. America during the French Indian War

http://www.warof1812.ca/charts/7warchtb.htm

French Regiments

http://www.warof1812.ca/charts/7warchtf.htm



Here's a link to British regiments in War of Independence
they're all infantry

http://www.atlantaminiatures.com/tips2.htm

[Poison Arrow]

Good idea. I have little specific knowledge of the Revolutionary War, but I do have some thoughts.

I would use this timeline. Found it a day or so ago after reading a similar thread.

http://www.pbs.org/ktca/liberty/chronicle/timeline.html

The ascension of King George seems an excellent point of departure. This timeline gives you many events before the actual war that precipitate it which you could show to the player as he progress through those years. Giving a reason to hate the English when they arrive. As they do well before the war starts. Up until the historical war started, there could be the messages the colonies are receiving about what is transpiring in England and it's affect on them. You could tax them perhaps.

Now, I mainly recommend this as a good starting point, I would end the historical recreation in 1783 with the signing of the treaty . That's 23 years to win or lose. 23 turns might require balancing the starting units, resources and buildings of all factions correctly so players have a chance to win.

For every faction you choose French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, the 10 or so tribes on the black and white map, etc.... You would need info on them and what their relationship was with the colonies from the begining of your time line to the end. Were they aggressive, or friendly? Do you want players to be able to win the American Revolutionary War as the Spanish? The answer to this depends on what kind of mod you want to make. A more historical representaion, or what if.

If your answer is the former, I would focus on creating a deep playable experience as either the Americans or the English. Both primary sides of the war should be playable. The other factions would then be support characters, that utilize the info you have collected to acurately supply messages to your main two playable factions. You could then also use that info to acurately build them up and represent their role in the main war.

The way to accomplish this would be to still make the other factions you choose playable, but since this is a mod, include a read me that states something like the following:

This mod is intended to be played through the English or Americans. The other factions are for historical events and will come into play throughout the mod. They will be interacted with but your best experience will be through the two main sides of the American Revolutionary War. The Americans and English.

I have some thoughts on Units too, but I'll see how you react to this first. Mainly, Indians and fighting style compared to the Europeans....

Give me Liberty, or Give me Death.

[Duke Dick]

hi, thank od someone is aking this, i suggested it a few days ago, and now someone os doing it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Just one question, are you only going to be making the map to encompass all 13 colonies, or are you going to expand it, because in the real event, the frenh and american's allied throughout against the english, and this would need to be in it.

Also, if you are making it, will you be able to ally with the english. this would be funny but not historically correct.

If you take over native american area's will you be able to gather the natives to your cause?

cheers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Duke Dick]

btw, you are also going to have to make canada a playable land mass, because at the start of the war, the americans tried to take over canada from the british, and also how about calling the americans thesons of liberty because they were not really known as americans in the day.

Also, if neccesary, i have quite a good resource of information on the american revolution, so if you need any info, just ask.

Here is some information on the units used by the british:

Mainly infantry based
A Few Dragoon units
artillery deployed in most battles
cavalry was used very little

British Commander in Canada:Lieutenant General Frederick Haldimand

British had allies and aid from: Germans, iroquois and algonquin indians(due to knowledge of forest warfare)

German troops:
Auxillaries

American Troops:
Local militia

French Troops:
large units of artillery
muskets
infantry

led by Lieutenant General Jean de Vimeur, Comte de rochambeau.


This is quite funny actually because i am doing this as my a-level coursework. I have read the replies, and people keep talking about hating the british and such. The thing is, what does everyone here think caused the american revolution? If you say the taxing, could you give me a reason why you think the british taxed the colonies? this would be good feedback for my assignment

[mercian billman]

The reason the British taxed the Colonials was because of the cost of the Seven Year (French Indian) War. The taxes were actually quite low compared to what Britons were paying, the problem the Colonials had was they had no parlimentary representation.

History would be very different today if the King would have given the Colonials, parlimentary representation.

Instead of calling the Americans the sons of liberty I think Colonials would be more appropriate.

[Duke Dick]

i agree actually, colonials or colonists would be ok.

actually my assignment is to discuss an area which has caused disagreement by historians. Its quite funny actually, your arguement just then about it only being a way to reburse their poor treasury is one side.

The other, is that the British taxed them because they wanted to improve the security of the colonies, come on the fench spanish and dutch were around, security was important, and the british expected the colonists to at least pay for some of it, and also to provide some of their own troops(1774 mutiny act).

in my opinion, the taxation was a bit of both, but the high handed way the brits went about doing so made war inevitable.

Parliamentary representation is an area that led to war, yes, but it is not part of my assignent, so i dont think i will mention it.

[Boulis]

I agree with mercian billman that the proximate cause for the increased taxation was to make up for debts accrued during the Seven Years' War -- especially since, from the British perspective, the North American conflict (the so-called French and Indian War) was fought to protect the interests of the colonials against French and Native American incursions. He is also absolutely correct to point out that from the colonists' perspective the taxation without representation issue was indeed pivotal in the final decision to secede from the Empire. On the other hand, from the British perspective, the whole issue was almost a moot point.

This clamor about representation made little sense to the English. Only about 4 percent of the population of Great Britain could vote for members of Parliament, and some populous boroughs in England had no representatives at all. According to the prevailing English theory, such apparent inequities were of no importance. Members of Parliament did not represent individuals or particular geographical areas. Instead, each member represented the interests of the whole nation and indeed the whole empire, no matter where he happened to come from. The unenfranchised boroughs of England, the whole of Ireland, and the colonies thousands of miles away -- all were thus represented in the Parliament at London, even though they elected no representatives of their own.(1)

Furthermore, by the time of the American Revolution, the power of the King was severely circumscribed. The English Civil War (1642-1649) and the Glorious Revolution of 1688 had pretty much assured the supremacy of Parliament over King. Parliament was the ultimate authority in the British colonies of North America. The King did not have the power to give the colonists representation in Parliament. In effect, only Parliament itself could make such a decision.

(1)Alan Brinkley, American History: A Survey, vol.1, 10th ed., (Boston: McGraw-Hill, 1999), p.137.

[Duke Dick]

this is good stuff, nice arguement boulis. doesnt anyone think that the British were right in their taxation of the colonists?

[SwordsMaster]

Have a look an NTW, maybe you could get some ideas...And ask LOS, he could possibly give you some advice.

[The Tuffen]

Sounds like a cool idea for a mod, hope to see it in the near future.

[Sir Zack de Caldicot]

Wow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Thank you for all that information guys Look for my edited post in the near future with more details.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
Sir Zack

[Duke Dick]

Hi just a bit more info i got from my books:

British Commander in america: General Gage

Important British Generals: Lieutenant Colonel Francis Smith
Major John Pitcairn (Marines)
Lieutenant Barker
Major General Sir William Howe
Major General Sir Henry Clinton
Major General Sir John Burgoyne
Brigadier Montgomery
Lt General Sir Guy Carleton
Brigadier BENEDICT ARNOLD


Important Colonial Leaders: General Washington
Admiral Sir Peter Parker
Major General Israel Putnam
Colonel Talmadge

Im reading a really good book on this at the mo, so i'll give more soon.

[Sir Zack de Caldicot]

Hey Guys ,

I've got some bad news here. The problem is, In my rush to begin, I've totally forget about Rome - Total war coming this fall, I doubt that much people will bother to play this due to the fact that, lets face, RTW is better. I've already heard people planning to create a MTW mod. RTW will also be easier to mod ( or so CA says). The problem is, I don't want to make a mod that nobody plays, so if set up two options, A & B

A) Create the mod anyway. The main things that will take the longest (and I don't know how to do either) is a new Campaign map and New Units . I will desperatly need someone to do the campaign map, and help with the modelling. I can do all the script work, but will need help with any graphics added. So maybe a team can be formed? If you want to do something, as simple as it is, just ask, and most likely I'll say yes Don't be shy.

B) Wait for Rome and then form a team. I'll just gather information until then.


Please give your opionions of these two options. I will still be working on this until Rome comes out incase option A is preffered. I might do both, you never know. I might just convert information to Rome comes out. Most likely the Lordz, METW, and HTW will be doing the same with their mods. Then you never know, this mod might escalate to that level to with enough help.

[mercian billman]

Well if you do a 23 year campaign that shouldn't take too long. Swordsmaster is right if you get help from the NTW team it would make the mod a lot easier.

Here's some more American Generals

Roger (of Roger's Rangers, French-Indian War)
Francis Marion (the swamp fox operated in the SE colonies)
Ethan Allen (the Green Mountain Boys operated in Vermont)

Nathan Hale should be a spy

Patrick Henry
Samuel Adams
John Adams John Hancock
Thomas Jefferson
Alexander Hamilton
James Madison
Thomas Paine, they could all be emissaries

There's some more generals but I can't think of them all right now.

[Duke Dick]

i don know about thomas paine as an emmissary. he acted as a protestor to the British and wrote three books in total, but he could be used.

[Antalis::]

You know NTW has very good 18 th. century units that could also be used in such a mod: Ask the Lordz, if you can use them, that would be great.
Also LordOfStorm has made a campaignmap of America for an upcomming American civil war: Maybe you can use this too, and make new graphics for this map to fit in the time frame.

[Sun Tzui]

Hey...shouldn't this topic be in the Dungeon???

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Gregoshi]

Quote[/b] (Sun Tzui @ April 14 2004,10:36)]Hey...shouldn't this topic be in the Dungeon???

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
Good point. Moving...