Counter for polearms

[Kommodus]

This question was motivated by English billmen, but it applies to all polearm troops, really. They seem to defeat or seriously damage any unit I've sent against them in a head-on fight (Varangian Guard can eventually defeat them, but not without serious casualties). Even when I engage them with infantry and hit them in the back with cavalry, their back rank often simply turns around and starts killing my cavalry. I realize that billmen will massacre cavalry, but I guess I expected to have more success when striking from behind. I can wear them down with missile fire, but that's not always an option.

Do polearm troops have any serious weaknesses? I've seen billmen and halberdiers chew through my sword infantry with surprising ease. They'll obviously take down any cavalry I send against them, and I doubt spear infantry would have much better luck. I know that some polearm troops (halberdiers in particular) will be vulnerable to armor-piercing missiles, but I'm really looking for a melee unit that can do the trick. Anyone have any ideas?

[PanzerJaeger]

Tear through your swordsmen? I havent seen that before, then again im stuck in MP. Billmen, halderbards, ext arent used that frequently in mp, and are easily defeated because of their poor moral and fighting ability vs swords. In sp valor and moral fluxuate(sp) so much, im sure poles have much more usefulness.

[gaijinalways]

I haven't seen billmen tear through much except cav, though them and the halbs have tough armor so if you have an archer unit you can shoot the attacking spearmen/swords.

As to counters, try javs from behind. I find usually if they are hit from several sides, both halbs and billmen will usually rout as their valor is not usually thay high.

[Serpent]

Valour 4 Halberdiers are Just ...just...well you know http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

But they are slow unlike cavalry or even better if armed whit bows...Just attack and retreat....and so on.
Shot them down.... If you dont have bows just hope lady luck is on your side.... Because there will be casualties in every war. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

[CBR]

Polearm units dont have an obvious counter unit. But on equal valor they are not really a monster unit.

When comparing stats you will find Billmen to be equal to feudal men at arms(FMAA) so a chivalric men at arm(CMAA) will win most fights against it.

Halberdiers have same combat power as CMAA but less morale and slower.

Your chivalric sgts (CS) will defeat Billmen.

Heavy cavalry doing a proper charge into the rear of a polearm unit should crush it.

If you have seen such units tear though your sword/spear units then its more likely the valor difference that caused it.

Check the logfiles of your battles or count the little flags next time you face them. Just one flag/valor more and a unit will be a lot better (+1 attack/defense +2 morale per valor)


CBR

[Lord Ovaat]

My swordsmen have always seemed to handle poles pretty well, their only problem being smaller unit size. Sometimes the get literally overwhelmed by numbers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (CBR @ April 12 2004,06:51)]If you have seen such units tear though your sword/spear units then its more likely the valor difference that caused it.
Yeah, I once had the English beaten down into one castle and then I stormed it. They have polearm troops and Royal Cav, all with 7 valor or so after our long, exhausting war. They killed at least a dozen or so of my Jihad-generated cannon fodder for every casualty I inflicted before they were wiped out by sheer numbers and a heavy downpour of arrows.

Want a melee unit that will do the trick? Another polearm unit called Janissary Heavy Infantry.

[katank]

why melee though. It's not cost effective at all.

try swarms of HA to drag them from one end of the map to another and then charge them from all sides.

arbs do wonder too. 6+ arbs firing at once chews up most armored tincans.

[nick_maxell]

usually double teamed inexpensive AP units do the trick for me (Gallows, Vikings or Ghazis) but they will suffer and not make it against high valor/morale poles (and forget it against the swiss ones.) I also got good results with HA or better fast jav units as they are very slow and the poles exhaust fast giving them morale penalty. If I m attacked, all ranged fire is directed towards them (as mentioned pavs can drop them easily) and a quick charge can rout them without a lot of losses on your side. Always have cav support on standby

best units against are better own Halbs, JHI and Swiss halbs but they will suffer a bit too and are expensive and hard to get.





http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

nick

[son of spam]

Pure hybrid archers... try it It's fun Kills everything except massed heavy cav.

[mfberg]

If I can get to Sweden in time its huscarles, vikings, or landsmenn to take on polemen, otherwise I use missiles and then swarm the remainder.

mfberg

[makkyo]

well..... good swordsmen/ axemen can take 'em out.... plus flanking... and your all set.

[lancer63]

Long range archers with armor piercing ammo. You need nothing else for those overgrown axes.

[katar]

longbows = dead billmen, never considered them to be a problem.

jinetes or kerns will give you the same result, just concentrate their fire on one unit, end of story. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif