How fast are you?

[Nowake]

Konnichiwa to all the taisho ..

Remember that you all played SP at one moment? Well, I was wondering how good you were at handling a campaign. How fast can you finish a SP game?

I haven't played Shogy for a year, but I had one or two days free this week and thought to give it a go, to see how rusty have I become. I fared well, but comparing results is always a challenge.

Of course, you need some rules in order to cast a vote; these are:

expert level
never load a game
never attack the factions with whom you are officially allied to

and I usually start from 1550, as all the clans are available and it is the most historically accurate.

[Oaty]

Oops I voted before I read the thread but its pretty much same anyways as sometimes an expert games is sometimes quicker because the A.I. is designed to be more agrresive wich in actuallity leads the A.I making a dumb move.

As far as attacking a faction that you are allied to is almost a joke, The A.I does the favour for you.

[Nowake]

Well, really wonder how much can a small mistake cost you?

Meaning, myself managed to finish with Hojo in 13 years; on the other hand, managed to finish with Mori in 13 years also ..

With the Hojo made two mistakes: 1 small defeat in Shimotsuke in 1552 against Uesugi where lost about 80 men, and took over Kazusa two turns after conquered all the other provinces, because me forgot to move some troops in Shimosa in time. With Mori me made none .. too obvious at least.

With Oda finished in 18, and suffered again no defeat. Why is that? Well, maybe if I would have been in a rush, I would have finished in 16, but I'm sure as hell it wouldn't have been 13 years.



Btw, has anyone finished in less than 10 years?

[insolent1]

Well when I first played the game I used to be quick about 15-20 years but now after playing MTW for so long i'm kinda slow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

Btw in my current 1580 Imagawa campaign the Hojo Damiyo was assassinated & his lands went to Uesegi. I had a quick look with .matteosartori. & it was an Uesegi asssassin http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
I've been playing with the battle time limit & it has cost me a few victories so far so I decided to turn it off & the next year Owari was invaded by Oda & his whole army just sat there. I didn't have enough troops to launch an attack over the bridge so I waited & waited...eventually I had to quit the battle & reload an earliar save & put back on timelimit
This is not the first time i've seen this happen but I always had had the timelimit on so it was no problem.

[Gregoshi]

I'm in no hurry. I build up my lands so my legacy endures long after I'm gone. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif

[insolent1]

Problem is the Geisha's, I faced one in one of my campaigns after 20 years(Mori must have got money from somewhere). It was like a Benny Hill chase every turn my damiyo was on the move to try & avoid her & I also had to move hordes of shinobi's to try & block. I had 6 2+ honour ninja go after her & they all failed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
I 've also noticed that STW AI uses the same cheat as the MTW one. Basically the AI can target their strategic units against you without knowing where they are
example
You have just bribed rebels and soon you have spainish inquisitors trying to burn your new aquisitions eventhough you are Polish have no borders, no spainish emissaries, princess's or priests in your lands(no ships either) or in STW ninja or geisha can target generals, heirs or damiyos without knowing where they are.

[DeadRunner]

I am like Gregoshi first i build up my lands ,when they are in a good economic level i get to conquering.

The main reason that i take time is because the conquered lands i developed them to a good lvl(no revolts: peasant happy=no revolt=taish very happy)

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif

[HicRic]

I must admit I'm very slow when it comes to playing Shogun through. The first time I won, my Daimyo was 93 years old http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

I'd be very amazed if anyone finished it in under 10 years. That'd be quite an achievement

[Nowake]

Yesterday finished my Takeda campaign.

It was done in 7 years So it is possible, even if it was the most ground-breaking experience. Finnally, I had all my startpoint generals + Morozumi Masakyo at 4 star (this means 7 4 star generals), Kansuke at 5 and both my heirs at 3.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

In old shogun I remember being able to beat campaign in 10 years with some clans...but in MI it is a better strategy to sit back and develop until you outech the AI a rediculous amount.

[barocca]

maybe i'm too rusty,

i can storm a bridge with ashigaru, 1xUnit nodachi and no archers at all (in my attack force),

i can get my legendary sword event in the first turn,

i can get to a point where i know i cannot lose in under 10 years, not even to the hojo/eusugi/oda horde

but i cannot get Shimazu across the finish line in 13 years...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
B.

[TosaInu]

13 years? 1.02 stats?

[barocca]

yes 1.02 stats,

heres the best i have managed so far,
screenshot and [url="http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/Risk_1558_summer.zip"]Save Game File

[barocca]

the army that is highlighted is ready to move,
another army of seven units is assembling in Busen,
but nowhere near the quality of troops, ready to go next turn,

I have been stalled with rebellions, but i put them all down.
many without fiing a shot,
ninja are running all over at the moment killing my emissaries,
i have border wathctowers in all province,
can build lots of good troop types in Satsuma, (inc no-dachi-h+1 and monks-h+0) with a +2 attack (swordsmith),
h+1 spears in Tosa,
h+0 spears in Bungo,
and h+1 archers in Hizen.

[TosaInu]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

I killed 99 enemies with 11 men in the first battle, but those were the hatamoto thus I didn't get the sword event.

Wasted over 20 YC in the 2nd battle.

I mainly rely on YA (cheap and many). But it appears I'm using 1.03 (slightly weak YA).

Game crashed in 1552.

Fresh start http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[ah_dut]

I take years and years, I turtle and PWN all with Kensai http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[zelda12]

I got 11 years with oda in early period. Yari rush. Need I say more. I usually play by capturing a buffer zone around my starting provinces building the inner ones than attacking outwards building max farm wherever I go to support my armies.

[barocca]

Shimazu is too poor :-(
all the lands nearby are highlands, the nearest mine is iyo,
and it is rare to capture it intact,
their are only 2 developed rebel provinces and both are three moves away - so there's little plunder to be had.

I took many risks to get that far that fast

But with the capture of iyo/tosa/sanuki and awa in one year, plus the alliances and a couple of ports i just got to a decent economic level, now providing i can pin down mori nice and quick i might be in with a chance for 15 years...

[TosaInu]

I captured Kyush (the whole mainisland) within two years, but problems started then as I need to consolidate to expand further.

[barocca]

still have not got it done in 13 years
- by year 1563 i have taken wakasa, omi, iga and everything to the west - and thats with a lot of risky attacks

following the rules you cannot attack an allied player

some ideas

ally only with hojo, uesugi and takeda - those 3 will beat themselves up,

oda and imagawa seem to do ok on expert level - they will be your second and third conquests, so dont ally with them,
likewise mori - ignore alliance with him.

first thing you should build is another castle, then a teahouse,
now you can build shinobi and i recommend try to do so every turn.
plonk one or two in each province you have held for a while and 3 or 4 in new captures.

they cost nothing to maintain and are more effective than ashigaru.
you still want ashi, and a handy number of them too, for garrsion duty while your elite troops keep grinding down your enemies. - you need some troops until the province goes green loyalty, then they willl stay that way with a shinobi ir two.

Shimazu can build and maintain no-dachi for a discount,
use them, lots of them, combine with archers and a couple of yari sams for enemy cav and you have a tough army,

build a swordsmith in satsuma as soon as you can afford one.
upgrade it as soon as you can afford one.

watch your heirs and only build units you want them in when they pop up - yarisam is a good one, archers are ok too.

try to take the richest provinces from the enemy first - lots of buildings give you lots of pillage - essential for shimazu.
plus you reduce the number of units they can build too.

seems like the ai is silly about sallying out of a seige, they will hold on even if you all you have seiging them are a few ashi.
so leave ashi behind and keep marching on,

build ports where ever you are building units,
build ports whenever you can afford to - 200 koku per year trade income.
build watchtoweres as soon as you take a province, may not have the cash for the first few turns, but sooner is better.

in battle flank flank flank, and if you are flanking with no-dachi, give them a covering unit to intercept anything the ai tries to send into the back of your flankers when they engage

try to get into the best position, uphill
even if it means marching all the way around the edge of the map.

if you get a super honour unit, even if it only 20 men try not to merge it with anything much lower and keep them away from archers.
16 honour 6 no-dachi made a right mess of a unit of h2 naginata cav by flanking them.

when you take tosa take advantage of the ashi bonus, very handy.

try to build up your generals.

BEWARE of the win/lose bug, if an ally helps you in a battle your general automatically "loses" the battle. this can cost him a star, so if you think an ally might help in the attack make sure the general you use can afford to lose a battle without losing a command point.

try to keep small armies in "central" locations until province turns to good loyalty, usually an archer 2 no dachi and a yarisam can take care of most rebels.

===
thats all i can think of for now, sleep time,
B.

[TosaInu]

Konnichiwa,

Tough, it's not really my style of playing and I lack some routine. I also submit turns before optimizing every bit: for example too much garison in provinces that have over 150% loyalty. I could have used those to press the attack more.

I took some risks, but not too much of an all or nothing approach. Nasty thing about Shimazu is the Portugese offer in turn 2. Accept it and you'll get too many revolts for the rush.
I've rejected every offer.

I also had some luck early on, the AI insisted on taking back a province he just lost and I happened to have some cavalry to slaughter routers. Taking the rest of Kyushu was then rather effortless, as the rebels just lost 100's of men. Especially the river province Chikugo can be a pain (lots of lsam).

http://www.totalwar.org/tosa/ExpertShim0.gif

Year is 1562 now, I have a nice income, a decent supply line thanks to ports and can produce H1W2 Nodachis for 225, Lcav http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif, loads of YA and gold armor Ysams (also some YC and lsam). I secured everything west of the Owari, Omi, Wakasa line but 3 provinces. Oda was so kind to eliminate most of the monks in Yamashiro while I was attacking Oda http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/tosa/ExpertShim.gif

Only 4 turns to go, so I'm not going to make it. Mori and Oda are eliminated by Shimazu and Uesugi is gone too (round 3 or so). I expect a nasty Hojo surprise in the east.

Barocca, Shimazu 1550 has Shinobies, Emissaries and Ninjas in Hyuga?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hmm shimazu in 13 years I'll have to try this http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[TosaInu]

Here are some more screenshots.

http://www.totalwar.org/tosa/ExpertShim1.gif

First contact. Slayed his heir and defeated daimyo army in two battles in one turn.

http://www.totalwar.org/tosa/ExpertShim2.gif

Mori, Oda and Imagawa are eliminated by Shimazu.

http://www.totalwar.org/tosa/ExpertShim3.gif

After Summer 1563. Attacked Shinano to prevent Takeda to reinforce other provinces. He went beserk with his YariCav general and was attacked from 4 sides by 4 full H0 lcav units. The remaining lsam wasn't much of a problem then. Unexpectedly conquered another province.

http://www.totalwar.org/tosa/ExpertShim4.gif

After Autumn 1563.

I leave Yamashiro untouched until only one clan is left. Don't want clans to ally against me. Almost every province is garrisoned.

[barocca]

thats a whole lot better than i am doing,
i think i am too cautious

off to work very soon, will post some screens tonight when i get home

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well I started this campaign...it is now winter 1552 and I have all of kyushu + Iyo, Tosa and Nagato. Got my legendary swordsman in a castle assault in nagato. Daimyo will be rank 4 soon and one of my heirs is near to rank 5 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I had a stroke of luch early on, all the rebels in buzen chikuzen and Iyo tried to lift the seige in bungo...580 vs my 270, killed 500 lost 41 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif and the rest died in the seige. I've gotten to the tricky part now where I am constantly fighting on two fronts. Built: port,one small castle one spear dojo 2 improved farmland...building level two farmland and sword dojo and horse dojo. No rebellions yet, a couple close calls though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I've been getting a province a turn which is not enough to conquer japan in less than 13 years... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Kills: 1367
Losses: 189

[TosaInu]

With some luck you can take 2-4 at a time later on. You are well on track. You had that lift siege in Bungo too? That's of a great help. You could walk straight into Chikuzen?

[barocca]

i restarted my campaign

1550
Spring i invaded Higo,
Summer was an invasion of Bungo,
(i made a tactical mistake and lost my Yari Cav - 50 dead)
Autumn saw me launch a risky invasion of Chikugo from 2 provinces, but the rebels came from everywhere to lift the seige of Bungo, i did not fare quite so well as Tosa,
i took some 400 heads and lost 100 - but the upside was the small force invading Chikugo were unopposed and i gained my legendary swordsman event
Winter 1550
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1550winter.jpg

1551
seeing i had drawn the rebels in and trapped them in the Castle in Bungo i invaded Chikuzen, Buzen and Iyo this year,
no opposition.
Built a few watchtowers and building a shinobi each turn that i can afford, placed a castle in Buzen
Winter 1551
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1551winter.jpg

1552
Tosa, Sanuki and Awa fell to my forces this year,
a few small skirmishes, Sword Dojo is complete and the archery and yari dojo's are in the queue in Buzen.
My army is gathering for the invasion of Hizen, as soon as a nodachi gets to the front lines i will invade
Winter 1552
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1552winter.jpg


1553
I have built no major improvements this year,
concentrating on troops,
an attempted invasion of Bizen on the mainland was thwarted by a counter invasion into sanuki, but i killed 105 rebels and lost just 1 man.
The next turn i invaded both Hizen and Bizen with spectacular success in both.In both province garrisons remain holed up in the castles, but they will be eliminated either during winter this turn, or i may wait for the spring in 1554.
The invasion of Hizen cost me 80 men but i took 330 heads.
Winter 1553
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1553winter.jpg


Like Tosa i am managing one province per turn,
on a positive note my income is up and i will build one or two ports this year. I will also be sending any shot-up front line troops back to rebuild.

I beleive that such grand starts, from both of us, will soon allow us to invade 2 or 3 provinces per turn.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Quote[/b] (TosaInu @ June 24 2004,12:17)]With some luck you can take 2-4 at a time later on. You are well on track. You had that lift siege in Bungo too? That's of a great help. You could walk straight into Chikuzen?
Yes Chikuzen Buzen and Iyo were all left empty http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The trickiest part is coming through the mori lands as you have lot's of border provinces...a total of 4 if you are going through shikoku. Nagato and chikuga are the the only provinces that have given me trouble so far, 2/3 of my casualties are from them; I've yet to lose more than 20 in taking any of the other provinces. The AI just can't protect itself against the cav to the rear morale penalty http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[TosaInu]

After securing Kyushu and ShiKoku (mainisland), I split my forces: daimyo through Nagato (I had the luck that it was still owned by the rebels, in fact I invaded it when Mori atacked it as well, Mori defeated the rebels and I watched http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ) and a high star general uses the port in Hizen to go to Bizen. The rebel provinces in the east shielded me from Oda, and I could do cat and mice with Mori.

[barocca]

please wait while pictures load,
they are smaller than the last lot i posted, i reduced all these,
i think Tosa reduced the ones i posted before.

1554
Spring came and I declared war on Mori and Invaded Nagato, the garrisons in Hizen and Bizen were eliminated in assaults
Summer and i consolidated my position, brought fresh troops up to the front,
Autumn saw me launch invasions into Bitchu, Awaji, Suo and Iwami,
sadly the rebels counter invaded into Awa and the winter turn i had to retake the province, and again saw me moving troops into position for next years assaults
Winter 1554
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1554winter.jpg


1555
Spring saw Mori invade and conquer Hoki while i Invaded Aki and Bingo trapping the Mori Daimyo in Aki castle and Mori's sole heir in Hoki.
Summer saw Mori try to invade Bingo while i launched a raid into Hoki - my target, the Mori Heir - i had to kill him,
I sent my son (an archer), 3 yari sam, an ashigaru and a second archer - the mission Kill Mori's Heir.
His Heir was leader of a troop of 12 Cav archers, but the province was heavily garrisoned, i had no hope of taking the province, Naginata and Naginata Cavalry, plus cav archers, archers and yari sam (all with improved, superior or legendary armour).
I hoped my son could retreat once the mission was accomplished, but that would need Buddha's compassion.
As luck would have it Mori's heir was killed as the Mori infantry charged my line, He was shot down by my archers,
I set my infantry on hold formation, hold position and ordered my heir to withdraw - he did so successfully and fully 60 of my yari sam were also able to escape the ensuing rout,
i lost 2 yarisams, the ashigaru and the second archer.
Mission Accomplished, with my assault on Aki castle at the same time clan Mori were eliminated.
Autumn i consolidated and merged damaged units,
Winter saw an invasion into Izumo, despite being outnumbered (by only a small number) i took 338 heads and lost 24 men.
I also sent a raid into Kawachi to try and draw supporting neighboring rebel forces into one location, they did not take the bait, and despite having only undermanned units (no-dachi, yari sam and archer - 1 of each) i decided to try for the province, rushed my archer to the bridge and charged yari sam and nodachi across, after a brief bitter fight with the warrior monks and supporting lsam and ashigaru units my men succeeded.
Winter 1555
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1555winter.jpg


1556
1556 and i had no opposition close to me other than rebels.
I had to push east quickly to prevent Oda sweeping into the vacuum i was creating.
Spring and i invaded Hoki, facing the tough well experienced former Mori troops, They fought hard but managed to withdraw to Inaba in a reasonable fashion - note to self BUILD CAVALRY
Summer saw me take Mimsaka and Harima.

Autumn 1556
i expected a counter invasion somewhere from the rebel army in Inaba, any province they had struck would have been hard pressed to hold.
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1556autumn.jpg
Autumn saw me gather as many men as i could, merge damaged units, and get as many troops to the front lines as i could, my ports are finally being built and this will make deploying to the front lines much swifter.
Winter and it was on for young and old,
I decided to try and draw troops out of Inaba by staging a raid into Tajima. I also tried to draw troops from Yamashiro by raiding into Tamba - again the rebels, despite outnumbering my raiding parties failed to take the bait and I wound up in control of those provinces.
I also assaulted Inaba, with a very mixed bunch of units (experience and upgrades),
1 no-dachi, 1 cavalry archer, 5 Lsam (archers), 5 yarisam, my daimyo and the last 2 men in my yari cav unit
Oddly enough, despite the pasting this stack of units had given me twice before, this time i killed 440 and lost only 73,
half the kills were inflicted by my fresh, brand new from the dojo, cav archers - they exhausted their arrows and then engaged an lsam hand to hand

So by the end turn of Winter 1556 I am holding Everything (including and west of) Tamba, Tajima, Kawachi
Winter 1556
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1556winter.jpg

Now i have to begin building some improvements, especially farming upgrades in the good provinces,
I have made a flying start and don't want to lose momentum because i run out of koku all the time..

B.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well it is not going so well for me, I am at the wakasa-tamba-kawachi line in spring 1558. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif Mori took a long time to pin down he would never commit very many troops and I had to keep seiging castles. His hon6a3 ys are hard to beat as well. However I have a rank5 and two rank4 generals on my front, and each year I train 4 nd(hon2w1 base) and 4 ys(hon1a3 base). Oda has very few men and I should be able to push through him without too much trouble, last year I pulled in 4500 koku with taxes set on there lowest. First 5 years (1552-1557) I only took 9 provinces, however in the last year I've taken 9 provinces http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[barocca]

seems you are more developed and producing better quality troops than i am,

spring 1558, still got 24 game turns to go
4 for 1558, 4 for 1559, 4 for 1560, 61 62 and 63.

with higher quality troops i have no doubt you will overtake me very soon...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Autumn 1559. Border: Echizen, Mino, Owari http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Took me only 4 turns to destroy Oda. From the Wakasa-Tamba-kawachi line I first invaded and captured the rebel held Yamashiro and Yamamato. Next turn I moved up troops. I then invaded Kii and Ise. Owari had a port and so I was able to bring in 4 units that I had just produced...I took owari while Oda moved 1000 troops into Ise to relieve it. Next turn I took Ise back and capture Omi and Iga, while Oda lost 700 men and his life attempting to capture owari. Next turn I invaded Echizen and Mino. So I have 9 more provinces, I can produce +2 honor monks in yamashiro and have a citadel in Owari. Predicted profits for next year are 8785. And all of the provinces near me are lightly garrisoned, 200 men max. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[barocca]

1557
Spring invaded Wakasa and Kii, i had seen an Oda invasion attempt of Yamashiro, so Oda had to be close by - proceed with caution...
Summer Yamato - Oda hold Mino and i fully expected them to hold Ise, Iga, Yamato and Kii - but no, all rebel held...
Autumn Yamashiro - it was now clear Oda had been beaten back beyond Omi, i expect Oda to be in pretty bad shape.
Winter - consolodating, Oda invaded Ise, there must be some life left in the old boy...
Winter 1557
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1557winter.jpg

1558
Spring Iga
Summer Omi - the rebels in Omi attempt to push Me from Yamashiro, they fail and fall back into the castle - very handy for me, and lucky I invaded Omi from Iga too...
Autumn - i regroup and move troops to the front
Winter - invaded Ise and pushed Oda out
Winter 1558
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1558winter.jpg

1559
Spring Owari
Summer Mino - Oda withdrew his army to Mino from Owari, I push my luck and shove my best 16 units into it, it's a hard battle and my vertean valour 6 cav archers are lost,
Oda had meantime invaded Mikawa, avoiding the trap...
Autumn Mikawa - got to hunt Oda down - Oda is killed in action and the clan dissolves (lol - no provinces left).
Winter Echizen, Hida and Shinano - i take a risk and go to war with Uesugi and Hojo, hoping that Imagawa will break the alliance - he does not, Imagawa may wind being the last clan on the field and i may have to break the rules and attack my ally.
Echizen has 5 warrior monks in it - a nasty surprise, i approach around the right side, forcing him to come down from that nasty hill, i move an ashi forward, and uesugi barrages them with arrows, when they dont break and run he charges a monk at them.
One by one he commits his monks to taking out this Ashi - only problem is I have 5 archers and the monks are annihilated before a single man comes into contact, the ashi finally break from arrow fire and a solitary monk (last man in his unit) routing through them and i surge forward...
Winter 1559
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1559winter.jpg

1560
Spring Shinanao, Kaga (with more monks) and Ethcu
Summer Kai, Noto and Echigo
Autumn Sado and Sagami
Winter Izu, annihilating the trapped Hojo army, and Dewa
both uesugi and hojo are reeling, while i am certain they have larger armies remaining, the uesugi seem to have mostly archers and the Hojo yarisam and ashi - very little cavalry in either or their armies and i appear to have eliminated uesugi's monks...
Winter 1560
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1560winter1.jpg
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1560winter2.jpg

Spring 1561 sees my border as Dewa, Echigo, Shinano, Kai and Sagami,
I have plentiful troops, many with good valour, though i have still not built many improvements, a dojo where i captured an armoury or a castle, ports at all troop builders,
but no farmland improvements or similar..
- i am not sure how to get Imagawa to attack me, so i propose a change to the rules,
if an ally is last clan standing, then you can attack that ally.

[barocca]

1561
Spring
Hojo sent a large force to releive Sagami, 1388 Hojo vs 867 Shimazu
- Hojo lost the battle and some 500 and i lost about 130
Summer
I attacked Kozuke and Musashi - both good victories,
Uesugi fell in battle and had no heirs (well he "did" but they died in the same battle)
Autumn
i attacked Hitachi and Shimosa, while Hojo counter inavaded into Musashi
I had no idea the composition of Hojo's force and decided to defend the province, that was a mistake, he had 8 archers and they cut my force to shreds easily.
Winter
Mutsu, Shimotsuke and retake Musashi
Hojo died in Shimotsuke and the Hojo clan disintegrated into rebels
Winter 1561
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1561winter.jpg


1562
Spring
Kazusa and begin lining up against Imagawa
Summer
Totomi and Suruga - the last 2 provinces on the map
Autumn
Assaulted the castles in Totomi and Suruga,
all opposition defeated
Shogun in 12 years and 3 seasons
Autumn 1562
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/1562autumn.jpg

kinda impressed with just how handy the no-dachi bonus in Satsuma turned out to be,
the no-dachi were a definate game winner,

Tactics and Strategy

All through the campaign i rarely had much cavalty, at most 1 yari and 2 cav arch in battle at once, and i was always reckless with them
I did build a few naginata cavalry, but never had more than one in a battle, and if i had naginata i did not have cav archers in the same battle,
Cav Archers seem to benefit from the cheaper valour upgrades for kills too
I kept merging damaged units into ones with upgrades,
even so far as to split elite honour units into low honour units (with upgrades).
i built shinobi and no-dachi relentlessly, always trying to balance my budget so that i built every year 4 satsuma nodachi and 6 to 8 shinobi.
Yari sam cost twice as much as Ashi, but are 3 to 4 times better in battle,
Ashi are good for screens and pincushions on bridges, but not much else.

Buildings
i built 90% of my troops in provinces with ports and only built dojo where i captured an armoury, a port or a castle,
i only built castles where i needed to build a dojo OR where i captured a port (then i built a dojo)
- i also built ports only in troop producing provinces, that way i could deploy them to the front rapidly.
1557/8 i built swordsmiths in all troop producing provinces,
i was beginning to run into upgraded enemy units and needed that one extra point of attack.

Never built anything more than border towers, and only in about half the provinces anyway
Never upgraded dojos (except satsuma and tosa)
built palaces only when i could afford them and only in about 1/3 of the troop provinces,
built troops as much as i could

In Battle
I always saved my arrows for the enemies elite units,
a typical army was 3 or 4 archers and 6 to 8 infantry - being a 50/50 mix of no-dachi and yarisam/ashigaru

One Ashi would be in front of my archers to soak up arrows and shield the archers from cavalry assaults
My third rank was always yari sam/ashi,
fourth rank was no dachi
a nodachi on each flank, cav behind them.
and keep the infantry together
I tried to attack from a flank whenever i could and threaten the opposite flank with Cav Archers, this prevents the ai from simply turning his entire army to face you.
As i advance once battle is under way i always move my archer up with the infantry to provide morale support and close range firepower
Where the enemy had superior troops i try to tease them into attacking me, using ashi and sometimes cav archers,
then let my archers shred them as they come in.

Often, by threatening a flank or by teasing, the enemy will commit his force piecemeal, allowing you to deploy overwhelming force against each enemy unit as it comes up.

Don't try to win a missile duel, simply march into range, let a few salvos fly then advance the infantry REMEMBER to stop archer firing as the infantry move through - otherwise you will kill some of your own men, also dont forget to turn fire at will back on after your infantry have moved through.

When engaged i always tried to get my flank no-dachi into the back of the enemies best units,
never did find a good counter to naginata foot or cavalry,
even yari sam dont work extremely well againt naginata cav.

Shinobi work HEAPS better at maintaining loyalty than having Ashi hanging around, and Shinobi cost nothing to maintain either

B.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well for me it is 1563...and I own 10 provinces http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif in 1560 I had 50 provinces but my daimyo died in battle and all of my provinces revolted http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

on the plus side this is the most fun I've had in a single player campaign for a while http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[PaolinoPaperino]

Usually to keep the game more interesting I play it producing only few unit types.
I just finished now the campaign with Uesugi, creating only YS and Archers. Obviusly the bribe is something different http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif
I have to admit I played two battles twice....I discovered that Oda, Imagawa and Hojo were ally vs me too late http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasarno.gif

But it has been fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[PaolinoPaperino]

Shinobi..
I love them, more then Geisha http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

They keep the provinces loyal, and as soon as you hear something:
"Lord XYZ has been killed, his faction is no longer.."
well they go as rockets in that area, and you should see how many insurrections are generated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Put a dozen to work together: u will have a civil war http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[HicRic]

I'm really impressed by the speedy times people are managing I've never tried to be very quick in Shogun, I should give it a try sometime. Actually it'd probably add some nice interesting variation in gameplay to that which I got used to.

It's odd, but I prefer the Shogun battles to the MTW battles. I don't know why-I mean, there are many more units in MTW and so you'd expect more variety...but...I don't know what it is. I just enjoy the STW battles more. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[barocca]

Quote[/b] (HicRic @ June 27 2004,16:23)]...I don't know what it is. I just enjoy the STW battles more. ~:thumb:
i think it has something to do with the excess of variety in MTW,
unless you study the units an awful lot it can be hard to know what units to pick, what units are good against what,

in Shogun there is an obvious rock/paper/scissors match up between units,
with Naginata infantry and cavalry being the only wild cards,
where missiles are not as effective as against other unit types,

yari sam have a struggle against nag cav,
no-dachi/monks are good against nag inf, but vulnerable to missiles, so if the opponent simply lets fly into the mellee with missiles both those types will have troubles.

[barocca]

Quote[/b] (Sasaki Kojiro @ June 27 2004,13:55)]Well for me it is 1563...and I own 10 provinces ~:eek: in 1560 I had 50 provinces but my daimyo died in battle and all of my provinces revolted ~:joker:

on the plus side this is the most fun I've had in a single player campaign for a while ~:)
ouch

better luck with the next campaign?

and you are going to let us know who this one goes?

B.

[ah_dut]

is it me or do all the admins just play STW and good luck Sasaki Kojiro in your next campaign

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Quote[/b] (barocca @ June 27 2004,22:54)]
Quote[/b] (Sasaki Kojiro @ June 27 2004,13:55)]Well for me it is 1563...and I own 10 provinces http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif in 1560 I had 50 provinces but my daimyo died in battle and all of my provinces revolted http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

on the plus side this is the most fun I've had in a single player campaign for a while http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
ouch

better luck with the next campaign?

and you are going to let us know who this one goes?

B.
It was kind of amusing really. I actually stopped playing that campaign after I realized that I was still more powerful than all the other clans and that the rebel armies were all ashigaru with a few samurai archers. Instead I've started a Takeda 1550 campaign with my goal being to win with less than 1000 losses.

[R'as al Ghul]

Hi all,

Thx for the amazing and inspiring reports.
I think I'm going to start a little campaign myself tonight.

Has anyone finished a campaign in baroccas STW Mod?
I only played custom battles and I've started a Shimazu campaign when I had downloaded it, but never found the time to finish it.
I figure it's a rather different gameplay with more clans and more rebel provinces. Right?

R'as

[PaolinoPaperino]

I have just now finished the same campaign,
following Nowake's restrictions, and not exploiting the port attack/bug.
I finished almost the same as u B., spring 1962. I have used a similar tactic, exept for the army composition: I did large use of YS and archers. In battle, as soon as the enemy elite troops were engaged, and the AI was approching to the melee its YA units, I was rediderecting almost all my arrows on one. With two volleys I was pretty sure to have it runnig away, dropping the morale to all the close friendly units....and then the victory was closer.

At the beginning I invested large sums of koku buildinging superiorfarms in Chikuzen, Chikugo and Hizen. This has made me suffering during the campaign against the Mori. I checked B.'s campaign, and he was almost two seasons faster than me at that stage. But later I were able to use large sum of koku, and I used them to bribe the large monks army in Kaga(5500+ koku for 8 monks hon 2, 6 archers and 2 ys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ).
Similar option done to bribe the rebels in Kazusa, it was 2 movement for my army to move from Shimosa. Instead thx to the Bribe, I have been able to reach Mutsu.
At the end I had 25568 koku, almost the double of B...
Big problem were the loyalty, in fact I could not allow to leave many troops at the rear, so I played almost all the campaign with tax rate one very low (75%), and I used large numbers of Shinobi (at the end I could count 22).
Just another notice: When I was engaging war against a clan, I was always trying to exploit the surprise with a triple attack:
-attacking 3 regions, forcing to retreat from 2, and automatically destroying the troops from the first(unable to reach a friendly region). In this way I destroyed Oda in almost 2 season (in the last battle only his gen survived, and the battle timed out. I had then to attack again the region..and to hunt that single man http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif ).

I am preatty sure without some defeats and counter attacks, the campaign could have been finished at least 6 seasons before.
But for a while now I don't want to see a Jap map.
I've done 2 campaigns in 1 week....I need http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/barrel.gif

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ok here is a screen from my Shimazu campaign, it demonstrates well why it is a good idea to attack the AI in fog or Heavy rain, they always deploy funny, in this game they deployed with their flank right towards me, easy victory.

http://img45.exs.cx/img45/8179/saved2.jpg

[PaolinoPaperino]

I saw that Tosa has placed a uploader on the Org, so I decided to post here a screen with the proof of my campaign.
I had no pic saved, so I just loaded the last saved game I had(it was spring 1561), and I've played the last couple of turn ..(I know Nowake, this is almost cheating, but I was too tempted to use the upload feature http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ).
The funny thing is that I have Uesugi attacked me, and beeing defated, and without escape...it let me winning in winter 1661(3 season earlier than during the "official" campaign) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/sd/Shim.jpg

I realized only later that I loaded the pic as bmp. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shogunshame.gif

[Nowake]

Don't worry Paolino, I'm sure you could anyway finish by winter 1561 https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif




And now, Nowake announces that he will finish a campaign with Shimazu in 8 years Who can beat that?

[Nowake]

My campaign with Shimazu was finished in 8 years; this time I really needed those shinobi:

http://www.nowake.home.ro/The%20Shimazu/Takahisa%20shall%20reincarnate%20as%20Nowake.JPG

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well here is my mori campaign so far:

http://img37.exs.cx/img37/6413/mori1.jpg

I'll try for less than 10, never played them in this scenario before though.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

http://img39.exs.cx/img39/7382/mori2.jpg

On schedule so far https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Nowake]

Good progres Kojiro-san.

I myself played the Mori some months ago, but didn't thought to speed things up and finished in 12 years. That legendary armour performs miracles with casualties https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif


Btw, some screenshots from my latest 8 years campaign with the Shimazu.

http://www.nowake.home.ro/The%20Shimazu/summer%201550.JPG

http://www.nowake.home.ro/The%20Shimazu/autumn%201550.JPG

http://www.nowake.home.ro/The%20Shimazu/winter%201550.JPG

Never be afraid of Arima. Gah
http://www.nowake.home.ro/The%20Shimazu/invincible.JPG

http://www.nowake.home.ro/The%20Shimazu/spring%201551.JPG

http://www.nowake.home.ro/The%20Shimazu/summer%201551.JPG

http://www.nowake.home.ro/The%20Shimazu/summer%201555.JPG

http://www.nowake.home.ro/The%20Shimazu/winter%201557.JPG

http://www.nowake.home.ro/The%20Shimazu/Takahisa%20shall%20reincarnate%20as%20Nowake.JPG

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Monks in Yamashiro gave up without a fight https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif dissapointing but certainly helpful. This screenshot shows my standard mode of attack...in echizen I am outnumbered 4 to 1.

http://img41.exs.cx/img41/8945/mori3.jpg

Battle result of Echizen. This battle worried me as they were all hon4 and included 3 monks 3 yc 3 ca 4 sa 3 ys and 2 ashis. Nice amount of honor gained https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

http://img41.exs.cx/img41/3076/mori4.jpg

After 6 years.

http://img41.exs.cx/img41/952/mori5.jpg

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Invading 8 provinces...
http://img67.exs.cx/img67/194/mori6.jpg

Seven captured, Hojo invaded shinano so I was not able to attack musashi. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif Also Shingen attacked totomi and my hon0 ashi garrison was not able to hold him off. For some reason he is listed as rank 5 even though he has 35 victories no losses https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
http://img67.exs.cx/img67/8250/mori7.jpg

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Finished https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif first time I've finished a campaing in 2 years https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

This amused me:

http://img59.exs.cx/img59/51/finalmori.jpg

Mori Motonari finished with 31 wins...just one more needed heh

Now who to play next...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I chose Oda...easy start, but it looks to get trickier from here, all of the conquered provinces are in the red https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

http://img59.exs.cx/img59/9373/oda1.jpg