View Full Version : need some peeps to train me in MP
like the title says
finally got gayspy to work and now i need some skills
i noticed my guys ALWAYS run away almost immediately and that ain't fun
i want to know how to make them stop running and how to own in MP. i need extensive hand-on training
if you are interested in training me plz post here with your MSN Messenber contact info preferably
thx
InsaneApache
04-17-2004, 09:29
Greetings....the best advice that I can give you is to befriend a few vets or clan members in the foyer and play a few games with them. Then they could probably give you some tips on troop disposition and tactics.
A few tips I can give you might help....personally I always go for valour over upgrades(ranged units excepted) and keep your troops tight in formation as long as you can. By this I mean keep your army as a unit as close to each other as is prudent. Also remember the scissors paper stone philosophy...range kill all... swords kill spears... spears kill cav.... cav kill swords...obviously this is a simplistic tactic and depends on valour/upgrades etc but it is a starting point.
Above all this is a game of flanking so ANY unit behind or to the side of an enemy troop will do well in melee. I try to 'sandwhich' the enemy formations if possible that usually works well and affects the enemy formations nearby with a morale drop.
Hope that's been of assistance http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif
InsaneApache
btw Hi to the guys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif
95% of all the recorded games I download are extremely boring, and consist of cookie cutter armies lining up and charging head long into eachother. I thought this was a game of tact? But, alas, I shouldn't be talking since I dont play online.
Raggs I agree with you. I come from an RTS background and ever since playing Total War i've always been of the opinion that it's mostly just a matter of the computer AI arbitrarily deciding who should win the battle which generally conists of throwing your units at the enemy units. if you try to employ RTS tactics like using great micro do draw fire/bait the enemy then Total War slaps you in the face for doing that by routing your units off the map and saying they were Disenheartened by constant retreat
i've heard many MP players on these boards say that Total War is about tactics therefore i wish to become a master of knowledge in this game to find out with 100% certainty if my opinon at the current time (that Total War is not very strategic at all) is correct or not.
One important thing is to get the right units. That means less running as they are not getting wiped out so fast.
Valor 3 FMAA and valor 2/3 CMAA (for 10k games, +1 valor for 15k) is the most common infantry units and are good for the money. Cavalry is feudal/chiv knights with no upgrades. Get some pavs for missile. There is always some tweaking you can do but you might as well use these units first to learn the game. Try something like 3-4 missile, 5-7 inf and 5-7 cav.
Another thing is support. Units dont like being alone facing many enemies. So understand how morale works..no you dont need to memorize all the modifiers but some general knowledge of the system and you understand why units rout.
MORALE
States
Impetuous: 10 and above
Steady: 2 to 14
Uncertain: -5 to 5
Wavering: -14 to -5
Routing: Less than -6
Rout point is -16 in MTW v1.1, and probably moved to -18 in VI for MP. Routed units will keep routing until their morale rises to -6 or above.
Hitting the rally key pumps +8 morale into the unit.
Impetuous units will pursue enemies for longer, and may disregard orders to hold position. Some troop types may charge without orders.
Uncertain or wavering units which are not fighting are less likely to charge, and those who are fighting are more likely to fall back.
Negative
Loose or disordered formation: -2
Outnumbered 2 to 1: up to -4 (range = about 75 meters)
Outnumbered 10 to 1: up to -12 (range = about 75 meters)
Outclassed in quality and speed: modifies the outnumbered penalty.
One flank threatened: -2 (range = about 60 meters)
Two flanks threatened: -6 (range = about 60 meters
Charged in flank: -4
Infantry charged by cavalry in flank or while disordered: -6
Charged in flank by unit hidden in forest: -8
General's death (for first few seconds): -8 to all his units except highly disciplined units
General's death (after first few seconds): -2 to all his units except highly disciplined units
Routing Friends: up to -12 for seeing 2 equal or higher level friendly units routing. Elite and disciplined units consider lesser types as 1/2 a unit for this calculation.
10% of unit is dead: -2
50% of unit is dead: -8
80% of unit is dead: -12
Taking casualties from enemy missle fire: -2 for a duration less than the reload of the firing unit (additional -4 for gunpowder weapons)
Unit is very tired: -2
Unit is exhausted: -6
Unit is totally exhausted: -8
Losing: Up to -8 (up to -14 if losing to cavalry)
Skirmishing without ammo: -6
Skirmisher pursued for a long distance by equal speed unit: -6
Positive
Two flanks protected: +4
No retreat possible (usually castle sieges): +8
No enemies around: +4
Two enemies routing: up to +8
Uphill Position: +2
Winning: up to +6
Unordered charge: +4 (such as when impetuous knights charge automatically)
Outnumber Enemy 3 to 1: +4
General's unit: +2
Within 50 meters of general: +1 morale per command star
Beyond 50 meters from general: +1 morale per 2 command stars
Archer and xbow open fire range = 100 meters (2.5 tiles)
Normal infantry marching speed is 1.68 m/s (speed 6)
This the list of morale modifiers (with comments made by Yuuki)
And then just plain experience. Takes time to get the feel for the game.... but easier when you have the right units.
Being nice and also willing to listen to advice from other players is important too. There are lots of veterans who will be help if asked.
CBR
The game could easily be better. Spears are not worth much for example.
But it does consist of the basic 3 elements: Cavalry, Infantry and missile. Teamwork is important and terrain makes it more interesting too.
So the tactics of using different units is a bit limited compared to how it could have been but IMO there is still lots of good stuff in the game.
CBR
can you guys explain disordered formation to me? how do i KNOW whether my troops are in a disordered formation or not? and i really don't understand when the game says of certain units best 3 or more ranks deep etc. how do i know how many ranks deep one of my units is?
how do i know if a flank is threatened or not? wouldn't flanks be threatened at any time any enemy attacks a unit that is on the flanks' side? which would be in pretty much every battle ever?
The_Emperor
04-17-2004, 21:55
Quote[/b] (Navaros @ April 17 2004,20:37)]can you guys explain disordered formation to me? how do i KNOW whether my troops are in a disordered formation or not? and i really don't understand when the game says of certain units best 3 or more ranks deep etc. how do i know how many ranks deep one of my units is?
how do i know if a flank is threatened or not? wouldn't flanks be threatened at any time any enemy attacks a unit that is on the flanks' side? which would be in pretty much every battle ever?
Ok How many Ranks deep is the number of Rows of men deep your unit rectangle is.
So Spearmen and Pikemen are good in a very deep formation because the guys behind the first few rows can still bring their spears into play because they are so long...
Archers are best in a very shallow formation at around 2 or 3 rows/ranks deep, otherwise the guys behind can't see over the heads of the guys in front of them and suffer in accuraccy.
Disordered formation is when you men break formation and fight as an unshapely mob (I am sure you've seen that one sometime).
Ok onto the second point.
A flank being threatened is exactly what you said it was an enemy unit getting in around the side or rear of the unit, potentially in a position to charge home or attack.
Units are happy if thir flanks are protected by another unit so ultimately you have to deoploy your troops in a tight formation to be mutually supportive.
Finally troops gain a morale boost from having their general near them, so always keep him close at hand even if he's just behind your lines shouting support to the troops.
1. how do i PREVENT my units from ever moving into a disordered state?
2. what is it that CAUSES disordered formation to happen (ie: if i charge will that disorder my formation?)
3. if i manually drag my unit men into rows instead of leaving them in their default position - will THAT turn
them into a disordered formation?
4. what are ALL THE THINGS what will disorder your formation?
5. how do i CHECK THE STATUS of if my formation is disordered or not in the middle of a battle?
6. what is the number + of morale boost of the general being near your units, and how near does he have to be in number of metres for this boost to work?
Quote[/b] (Navaros @ April 18 2004,04:30)]1. how do i PREVENT my units from ever moving into a disordered state?
By giving them time to reform when they have just stopped fighting or running, or when changing the unit facing. This is especially important for spearmen. Don't give last-second formation-change orders to your spearmen.
Quote[/b] ]2. what is it that CAUSES disordered formation to happen (ie: if i charge will that disorder my formation?)
You get disordered formation if there are gaps in the formation. These can be caused by casualties (try looking at spearunits who have fought for a long time without regrouping) and to a lesser extent running over long distances.
Quote[/b] ]3. if i manually drag my unit men into rows instead of leaving them in their default position - will THAT turn them into a disordered formation?
No. But you don't want your men reforming when they are about to be attacked.
Quote[/b] ]4. what are ALL THE THINGS what will disorder your formation?
Again: casualties, and to lesser extent move orders, without giving the unit time to regroup.
Quote[/b] ]5. how do i CHECK THE STATUS of if my formation is disordered or not in the middle of a battle?
Look at the unit. If there are large holes in the frontline (i.e. the frontline is broken and individual men get flanked), the unit is in trouble.
Quote[/b] ]6. what is the number + of morale boost of the general being near your units, and how near does he have to be in number of metres for this boost to work?
See CBR's list.
If the use of maa is commonplace online, why not make your army completely cavalry? That makes the arbs and MAA next to usless... Not to mention you get far superior manuverability, I mean...you SHOULD be able to come around behind then with a unit or 2. I have seen ONE battle with unique style, and that was that one with mass horse archers, which was one awesome game. The rest were line up, shoot your arbs at their arbs for 2 minutes then charge in head first with everything.
IIRC the morale bonus for generals is only for SP.
Dont worry too much about disordered units. A unit can take a lot of abuse before it turns into a disordered mob. And it can quickly reform.
I would say that its mostly when a unit is running/persuing that you will get that disordered formation. A quick formation change or turning wont effect the unit for long.
CBR
Kongamato
04-18-2004, 23:12
Quote[/b] (Ragss @ April 18 2004,16:34)]If the use of maa is commonplace online, why not make your army completely cavalry? That makes the arbs and MAA next to usless... Not to mention you get far superior manuverability, I mean...you SHOULD be able to come around behind then with a unit or 2. I have seen ONE battle with unique style, and that was that one with mass horse archers, which was one awesome game. The rest were line up, shoot your arbs at their arbs for 2 minutes then charge in head first with everything.
Most of the games are team games and you wont get the kind of room for action like this. You're right that the cav would work best for flanking, but as far as head-on fighting goes the swords simply dominate. Swords become the most cost-effective unit for head-on fighting once you get above the 7-8k florin range. Missiles are also very useful. There will be stalemate games where pavs just fire at one another, but they are also a great tool for shaping the front line. Victories in the pav war can curl your opponents' line up, gaining your team control over how the melee will be fought. Not taking pavs and just rushing can make you predictable. If you'd like added action to the pav war, seek out 2v2 games and Early era games. There's room in those for higher levels of skirmishing.
I also want to make some suggestions for making good relations with the people in this community. These suggestions may seem pretty silly and insignificant, but I feel they make a difference here. This is not like other game communities. From my observations, the mentality is similar to that of a small, rural town. Everybody knows everybody and politeness and tradition are respected. To gain their respect, first impressions are key. Try to hold back on the counter-strike/FPS/internet slang. Many will consider it to be inappropriate for such a civilized community. We like to consider ourselves above those who jump around shooting a rocket launcher typing sophomoric insults using numbers instead of letters. It never hurts to use perfect grammar and spelling. The question wat r the best soldiers is not going to get as much replies as What is the best infantry unit. Training takes some effort from both people involved, and many wont bother if you dont care enough to type properly.
actually in my first multiplayer game i ever played of Total War i took Italians and i only brought 4 units of Gothic Knight Cav with v4. i had some {Crusader} guys as my allies, and we totally whomped the enemy; who each brought a full army.
altho in later games with me trying to use this same all-cav strat, it did not turn out so well. LOL
so you guys are telling me that charging with my units will disorder their formation?
how do i MAKE my guys re-form during a battle; when they are already engaged?
is it better to usually just wait around and let the enemy come to me in a battle so that my formation will not get disordered?
The Witch-King
04-19-2004, 02:41
Hmmmm, always get the full 16 units Navaros. Pumping up 3 or 4 units and charging them into the fray will not win you any battles. Granted, your uberunit can take on a single unit of your opponent with ease, but for each of your units he will have 4 and he WILL use them too. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif
Quote[/b] ]I also want to make some suggestions for making good relations with the people in this community. These suggestions may seem pretty silly and insignificant, but I feel they make a difference here. This is not like other game communities. From my observations, the mentality is similar to that of a small, rural town. Everybody knows everybody and politeness and tradition are respected. To gain their respect, first impressions are key. Try to hold back on the counter-strike/FPS/internet slang. Many will consider it to be inappropriate for such a civilized community. We like to consider ourselves above those who jump around shooting a rocket launcher typing sophomoric insults using numbers instead of letters. It never hurts to use perfect grammar and spelling. The question wat r the best soldiers is not going to get as much replies as What is the best infantry unit. Training takes some effort from both people involved, and many wont bother if you dont care enough to type properly.
Right on Kongamoto
Navaros,
I really do not worry that much about the ordered/disordered state. It can become a factor when your unit is chasing an enemy and gets flanked by another unit. What is important is to flank the enemy and to not get flanked by them. Remember the units get a little bonus for charging.
It is not best to just wait around. Usually in team games there is a discussion of strategy. It is best to double (or slightly outnumber) one of your opponents, not let anyone on your team get doubled.
ichi
yeah, going with full 16 units is recommended, spread valor out also.
V4 units are not really that cost effective, esp. heavy cav.
to have only 4 units is a bit crazy.
going with 12 pumped up units though can sometimes pay dividends.
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