That's Amore...

[meravelha]

Has any Byz player found a sure-fire way of keeping Napoli at the very beginning of the early game?

The province starts largely catholic, usualy with a incompetant governor, no port and no fort. The garrison is 1 Byz Inf and 1 Naptha-thrower unit.

It is often the best I can do to keep the chances of revolt down to 25%

I have managed to keep it once, but that was sheer luck. Since Naples is a Homeland province for the GA game, I'd like to be able to keep it on a regular basis.

[katank]

you know, you can name govs from other provinces.

I typically name the highest dread guy I can find at 3 or 4 skulls.

BTW, build watch tower and border fort immediately and then fort and militia building to thump out troops.

this will usually help you hold onto it.

BTW, make good use of napthas and byz inf when actually suppressing a rebellion.

they can do quite some damage. use 2 ranks for byz inf, hide in forest and charge when possible.

use hold for napthas and target eenmy units from the rear for max effect.

[meravelha]

*slaps forehead*

Of course Rent-a-Dread
He doesn't even need to be the smartest tax accountant on the block...


Thank katank. I think that will work.

[lancer63]

Actually I favor rebellions in Naples until either the sicilians, italians or the papal forces are ready to take it. Think about it. There is no way you can make a ship chain that allows reinforcing the boot in time. One unit of biz inf. and one of naphtas good as they may be, are no real defending force no matter how hard you try.

But rebel armies 'train' your troops which gives your biz inf. general at least 2 quick stars and might even get a couple of good V&Vs, because those armies are usually spear or archer units which are easy to deal with. You may lose Naples and then again you may not. At least get some stars out of it. That guy usually ends up the only infantry general equal to the other 6-7 star cavalry commanders.

[Doug-Thompson]

I always try to keep Naples, just out of principle, but I'm about to leave my principles behind.

It's just not worth the trouble.

Trying to hold on automatically gets you into a war with Sicily and possibly with the Pope too. Sicily has a navy. That interferes with trying to build a ship-chain to keep Crete, Rhodes and Cyprus in line while expanding at the expense of Turkey and Egypt.

I've had some great fun defending Naples. I've just about perfected the naphtha ambush. Still, I think I'll just disband the units, destroy the buildings for some cash and let the Sicilians fight some rebels the next time I play the Byz.

[katank]

I don't know though.

It only takes two ships from Const. to form chain from Greece to Naples.

The slav warriors from Bulgaria and Moldavia can be more than enough to keep the province happy.

I find it's quite doable to then sneak the ships over to the straits of sicily and malta channel and rapidly sink the sicilian navy while I bum rush them using my troops.

once I kill their king in malta, the naval threat disappears.

Then I take Rome as a step to reunite the Roman empire. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Axeknight]

I also use Naples to train up a commander to be hard as nails. You just fight every rebellion-defence yourself, and if you can't reinforce after 5 or 6 rebellions, just let your gen get captured and ransomed. Then he gets the 'Captured' V&V, and can be retrained in Const. to get 100 men again. You then have a Captured, Skilled (or Specialist) Defender, Skilled Last Stand, high valour gen for your campaigns http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Tricky Lady]

Quote[/b] (katank @ April 20 2004,18:25)]I find it's quite doable to then sneak the ships over to the straits of sicily and malta channel and rapidly sink the sicilian navy while I bum rush them using my troops.

once I kill their king in malta, the naval threat disappears.
In my last Byz campaign, I tried to knock the Sicilians out of their homelands, and invaded Sicily. They immediately pulled back to Malta, so I was so full of myself (well done tricky lady, you're so good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ).
but then http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif Sicilian king lands without any resistance in Greece. damn forgot that i didn't have a navy yet http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-embarassed.gif Luckily I got an excellent general/heir in bulgaria with some decent troops, so I could defeat the sicilian king and his son.
Ransomed them back to Malta for 9000 fl. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[katank]

yeah the key prior to invading sicily is to make sure you can achieve local naval dominance in sicily and malta.

the sicilians tend to spread their ships all over the place but you can overwhelm Sicily and then amphibious attack on malta to win and thus not have to fight most of their fleets in being able to wipe out their faction.

I also will strategically let the Sicilians invade Greece and then cut off retreat to ransom the king or prince.

[Tricky Lady]

I must admit that I got lucky that the AI was so stupid to strategically invade Greece with (numerically) inferior troups (only 2 RK + 1 militia, I believe). My troups in Bulgaria were not so outstanding, but still good enough to teach the arrogant Sicilian king a lesson (1 kata, 1 byz inf, 1 slav warrior and 1 treb archer).
The ransom was a nice little extra. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[katank]

well, I think autocalc waaaay too overrates RKs so to the machine, it's not so stupid.

maybe they only consider combat power and not numbers, hence believing that RKs are invincible?

[katank]

@ doug, what do you mean by the naptha ambush?

like hiding them in the woods and wait to unleash the nades when they march past you?

if so, that's quite an interesting tactic.

BTW, I'm personally also enjoying naptha again.

BTW, in one of my recent rushes, I went against the starting Turkish garrison in Rum with only my emperor and an unit of naptha.

funny how I totally destroyed them.

enemy spears come up to greet my katank, my napthas go BOOM. yay http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (katank @ April 20 2004,15:11)]@ doug, what do you mean by the naptha ambush?

like hiding them in the woods and wait to unleash the nades when they march past you?
Yeah, exactly. I leave a unit of spears or something in the open and the naphtha throwers in the woods nearby. When the enemy's fully engaged with the troops in the open -- Surprise

Another time, there were no woods but there was a really steep hill. The naphtha guys unloaded on some spears as they were coming up the hill, and away they went.

===========

Sure, its possible to spend a lot of money on ships and open a lifeline pretty early. However, I'd rather destroy the Turks and then take Egypt.

The vanilla spears, peasants and Nubian spears simply don't stand a chance against Byz infantry and katophracts. And you don't need a navy to get there.

Rum, Armenia, Edessa, Syria, Tripoli, Palestine, Egypt -- or Naples and possibly Sicily for a lot more trouble.

Some of those Mideast provinces already have harbors, too. Build up a big economy, build up a navy, and then you can clobber the Sicilians to your heart's content.

[katank]

I know. I always blitz the Turks and Eggy.

However, I send a byz inf to take moldavia and build 2 ships so I can send troops to naples through Greece.

this always saves Naples for me.

my byz inf and naptha can hold there long enough for the ships to arrive.

[meravelha]

Unfortunately, played on Expert last night, the rebels showed up as an 800+ strong mix of peasants, spears and feudal sergeants.

But I'm not too worried about losing Neapolis.
It allows me to concentrate on the Turks and leave the Sicilian rodents til later.

[son of spam]

There is no guaranteed way of holding on to Naples. However, I suggest that you immediately begin building a watch tower and then an Inn. In my experience, an Inn in Naples almost always gives you large units with low upkeep (ie. Spears, even byz inf). Moreover, the mercs can also fight while keeping the peace, allowing you to destroy any rebels that show up (or scilians for that mater)

[katank]

I go with watch tower, border fort, inn, fort, militia building.

your byz inf and naptha can take that rabble.

use the woods and naptha ambush.

[pdoan8]

Trying to hold Naples is tough, but doable (may be you will need a little of luck). You will need to build nonstop.

First thing: a point a governor with high dread as mentioned above if I could. Lower the tax rate to minimum (at least for the first 5-6 turns) and may be raise tax in the other provinces if I have to.

For the building, I would build in the following order:

Fort (4 yrs) - Town Watch (2,Urban Militia) - Watch Tower (1)- Bowyer (2) - Spearmaker (2) - Inn (2) - Keep (8) - Swordsmith (4,Byz Inf). Sometimes, I build the Watch Tower first, but most of the time, after I build the Town Watch. It's only one turn anyway. Inn can be moved back after spearmaker or Bowyer.

Right after I build the Fort, train a couples of peasants. Not very good for combat of course, but the number can help to deter both rebel and other faction from attacking. That's why I build the Fort first. Most of the times, I will be attacked by the neighbor within 10-12 years. If not, then I'm in luck. All I need is to fend off the rebel if there's any. Until I have 3-4 UM and the Inn or Spearmaker, then I am in a good shape.

At the end of the first 10 turn, I should have an army of: 1 Byz Inf, 1 Naptha, 4-5 peasants and 2 UM and 2 archers. By the time I start building the Keep: I should have 1000+ men and may be some Mercs if I have the money. Within 30 years, I should have a huge army of 4-5 Byz Inf, 1 naptha, 4 spearmen, 4-5 archers, 4 - 5 UM (replace peasants with spearmen).

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (pdoan8 @ April 21 2004,07:43)]Trying to hold Naples is tough, but doable (may be you will need a little of luck). You will need to build nonstop.... (etc.)
Which again begs the question of whether Naples is worth all this trouble. The only tangible reason to hang on is a few more victory points for glorious achievement.

[meravelha]

Quote[/b] ]
your byz inf and naptha can take that rabble.


hmmmm. I'd better improve my game then till I can...

[pdoan8]

Quote[/b] (Doug-Thompson @ April 21 2004,09:05)]Which again begs the question of whether Naples is worth all this trouble. The only tangible reason to hang on is a few more victory points for glorious achievement.
In GA game, I will keep it. Just for fun.

TD game, I normally abandon it and focus the resources on something else more important like getting as many VG as I can before it's too late.

[katank]

well, a big force there can threaten both your naval rival the sicilians and keeping a big force near the popesta makes him more friendly and less likely to call for crusades against you.

besides, with properly established trade, naples is actually pretty rich.