Good excuse for developers?

[Methabaron]

Well guys, you know me... I have to say it:

This could be an excellent opportunity for developers not to improve many things still needed in STW with the excuse of including those in the expansion. I have not heard anything about a realease date so far (maybe something vague about Spring?)...

I am very much afraid that developers could very well say that ANY significant improvement in the game (and we still need many) or whatever will have to wait until this release...

I honestly hope not.

But if that is the case I'll try my best to not to let them.

Metha

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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."

[This message has been edited by Methabaron (edited 12-19-2000).]

[Kurando]

I hear what you're saying man, one can't help but wonder that...

The thing which positively will be good is that the editors are going to be part of the package. As long as those actually work, who cares if the add-on is worth the money; no question the guys in the editing forum will be making killer stuff left, right, and center!

Too bad we gotta pay for it, but let's wait and see. If they try a cash grab they won't be fooling any of us that's for sure, but I'm with you: I honestly hope that's not the case.

[Erado San]

Metha,

I have to agree with you. Some of the improvements would be suitable for a patch too.

In the past they announced that parts of the add-on would be downloadable, and the complete package would have to be paid for. I just hope they will live up to that promise.

But, on the bright side, they seem to include much that we really want: MP Online Campaign, editors, Mongols, new units. I think it will be good value for money.

On the release date: the articles mention spring 2001 for a release. That means april - june. So, I'll be counting on june then. Will spare me some frustration. But I'll bet that come april the forums will be foaming with 'When...' threads again.

[Methabaron]

Some people have already mentioned it too. Hopefully there will be also a way to make sure current owners of a STW copy will not pay twice for the same thing (i.e. it was announced that the basic STW will be included in the expansion,(?))

Metha

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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."

[Rob]

Remember, if they release parts of STW:Warlord as patches, they get free beta testing (from us http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif )

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MizuRob Hojo
Honour to clan Takiyama

[Kage]

I don't really care about the money, I'll be happy to pay for the editors and online campaign.
What has me worried is all this talk about new units, battlefield ninja, new buildings etc etc...
Where are the strategic ninja missions against enemy infrastructure? Where is the ability to destroy unwanted buildings when I take a province? where is the better troop management? (ok that last one is supposed to be in the next patch, if there is one).
Has anyone given any thought to how this great new game will play? It seems to me that the mongols and their Cav armies will have a pretty hard time of it against the men with the sharp pokey sticks. Try out a few all cav armies and you'll see what I mean (especially online).

Oh well, just have to wait and see I guess.

Have a nice day

[Kage]

On second thought...
Battlefield ninja? Grrr, just the thought of it makes my stomach turn. Who in their right mind thought this would be a good idea?

Come on guys pull your heads out!
The tactical battle engine is GREAT as is.
Your challenge is to improve the strategic side of the game.
How frustrating is it after playing for 40 game years to have 2/3 of japan go ronin because all the AI daimyos just died without heirs? Very!
Where are the little things that will make this the 10 out of 10 everyone is waiting for it to become?
That is your challenge.

Battlefield Ninja? Sword Saints? New Buildings?
Whats going on, did EA send over some corporate monkey in a suit to help you make this game into another AOE clone or what?

Have a nice day (or not)

[Kurando]

Sounds like somebody needs a hug... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Methabaron]

Indeed... the truth is still out there...

And by the way, for your info Kage... extracetd from Mt Turnbull interview with the developers (Sep 25th, 2000):

Quote 5. Do you feel that there is any units that are not in the game which could be added in an add-on pack?

I think what would be great in an add-on pack is to have a few more actual historical battle with realistic scenery as far as we are able to do that - so that the characters that we've already got can actually re-fight some of the battles from history. And another thing, it may be very difficult to do but I know that the development team have got some very clever ideas up their sleeve - how about ninja on the battlefield? - they were used there. [/QUOTE]


Scully!!!

Metha

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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."

[This message has been edited by Methabaron (edited 12-19-2000).]

[Jpf]

Yes, I would go along with Methabaron on this one.

I've read Stephen Turnbull's book on the Ninja

'Ninja - the True Story of Japan's Secret Warrior Cult'

In this he refers to several accounts of samurai breaking into camps (in disguise as enemy soldiers) on the eve of a battle to cause mayhem and confusion.
A good read http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

But saying this, I feel that the generals enclosure or some other type of battlefield camp would have to be integrated into the game engine (as Obake pointed out in another post)
Would this be too much to ask of the game developers?? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

i hope not

[Ii Naomasa]

The reason people fear these 'battlefield ninja' is because of the inherent abuse that could occur.

What you describe, Jpf, is almost what you can currently do with your ninja...send them in to assassinate a general on the eve of a battle to confuse and demoralize your enemy. Unfortunately, that's currently all you can do.

Battlefield 'ninja', whether they were truly from ninja families or they were samurai performing espionage tasks, were not units that took part in the final decisive engagement, which is what 'battles' in Shogun abstractly represent. If Shogun displayed full battle situations, including the arrival and setup of camps, the days of waiting and skirmishing, and the final engagements, than battlefield ninja would be much more viable (then again, could you imagine all the people who would avoid formalities and attack the first night? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif ).

In the abstract nature of Shogun, ninja really are best served as strategic units. It would be nice if you could no more with them...destroy buildings, potentially bribe/threaten junior officers, maybe weaken troop strength, etc, etc.

I'm not exactly sure how they'll be implemented. Deception will be limited (it's going to be difficult to sneak them into an enemy group...even though I've encountered a lot of people who don't pay attention to their army (I once accidently sent a YS unit out flanking with my cavalry, so for grins, I brought the group in as the enemy marched by...and my YS were able to march right behind the enemy until he met my main lines), most people would be suspicious of a group they didn't purchase whom they can't control. Maybe the battlefield ninja will act as the scouts we've been hoping for, moving quickly and undetectable at long range, with perhaps some skirmishing capabilities to harry the enemy's flanks and rear.

[Kage]

How secret do you think the "secret warrior cult" will be if there are 60 man units of black pajama clad ninja running around the battlefield?
I would really like to hear from the developers how they plan to use these battlefield ninja and other new units that are being added to the game.

Any takers?

Have a nice day.

[This message has been edited by Kage (edited 12-23-2000).]