Fishing the AI out of woods

[Krakra]

The AI in MTW seems a lot better than AI in Shogun. That said, it is still a poor form of 'intelligence.' Here is one experience I ran in.

I invaded a province (now forgot which one) with 4 horse archers and a unit of royal knights -- 180 troops in total. Facing me were a unit of spears and a unit of byzantine infantry -- 160 in total.

The AI started on a hill and in the woods. It seemed to me that I waS rather screwed, as my cavalry was at a huge disadvantage in the woods and my archers were quite ineffective in woods as well.

To fish the AI troops out, I put three of my archers in a semi-circle, while the forth unit went in the woods almost in the face of the spear unit and started firing at the spear. Although in 3 volleys my archer unit killed only 5 spears, the spearmen rushed into an attack. The cavalry retreated, and lead the spearmen stright into the semi-circle where the archer fire totally decimated them. Very quickly the spearmen routed and made it off the map with mere 12 men.

The byzantine infantry was fished out pretty much the same way and met with pretty much the same fate.

I truly hope the developers of Rome TW will make the AI smarter. That map should have been a complete win for the AI, had it just sat in the woods. In the meantime, though, players can use such 'fishing' technique to deal with entrenched AI units.

[katank]

this is quite well known. fake routs would get you even better results.

you can also just run backwards with cav close to them and they usually give chase which means nive parthian shots or shock cav charge.

BTW, how's a spear and byz inf 160 men? they are both 100 man units.

[Krakra]

Not if you play with MedMod :-)

I am quite new, so I wasn't aware of the tactics before

Thanks for the very informative reply

[katank]

I knew that medmod is different.

actually, it's not so bad in medmod as the byz inf or vestirae (sp?) as they are called in medmod lose their rank support bonus in the woods and so do the spears.

thus, your cav wouldn't quite do as badly compared to going against pure sword inf.

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (katank @ April 20 2004,11:48)]BTW, how's a spear and byz inf 160 men? they are both 100 man units.
Some starting units are just 60 instead og the ordinary 100. Take a look at the Eggys first 4 spears in startpos might be the same for the Byz somewhere probably.

[HopAlongBunny]

Nicely sprung trap Krakra :)

One of the addictive things about this game is figuring out how to get the AI to do what you want them to. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] ]I knew that medmod is different.

actually, it's not so bad in medmod as the byz inf or vestirae (sp?) as they are called in medmod lose their rank support bonus in the woods and so do the spears.

thus, your cav wouldn't quite do as badly compared to going against pure sword inf

But they would still kick your ass.
Had spearmen vs hobilars in a Aragonese campaign, outside the woods it was a hard battle won purly by numbers. Inside the woods, hobilars what hobilars? Ah you mean those dead ones.

[Navaros]

sometimes when i am playing vs. the AI in Medieval they will come attack me with a piddley-little army and when the fight starts; i can't see them

so i'm just like: wtf i'm not gonna scour all of this huge map just to find which woods the AI is hiding in

so i just leave my men right where they started and shift my time slider to the rightern-most position til it's at 100%

of course i win 100% of the time with no casualties LOL. don't think i've ever seen the AI come out of the woods in that situation

obviously i agree that the AI is pretty bad in Medieval. i got stories about winning manyy attacks over bridges in maps that the AI SHOULD have annihilated me on easily

[Nowake]

Krakra, you can use this tactic with any unit, cav units lure them off even more efficiently

[katank]

@ ironside, i know the cav is getting raped but at least the inf will get a bit of penalties too if that offers your dead horsies any comfort. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Krakra]

Katank wrote: actually, it's not so bad in medmod as the byz inf or vestirae (sp?) as they are called in medmod lose their rank support bonus in the woods and so do the spears.

I don't believe the spears lose their rank bonus entirely. I think only the units that don't get the proper support from the ranks behind do (i.e. if there is a tree in a way. With the game, it is very hard to know how many such 'columns' are affected, just like it is often hard to tell whether you are in the woods or not. Example: sometimes a unit is in the woods and you see a green tree up in the right-hand corner of the unit; often, however, you can be in the woods and not get the tree. In the latter case, are you still in the woods? If not, how can one tell if the AI is 'truly' in the woods?

In any event, though, horse archers are very poor melee units to begin with, and in the woods they are hopeless. With their poor morale, I have had units rout just from being away, let alone fighting a losing battle. Will rout for sure.


Navaros wrote: i got stories about winning manyy attacks over bridges in maps that the AI SHOULD have annihilated me on easily.

Absolutely. I always attack accross the other bridge, which the AI never defends. At that point its algorithm, for some reason, brings the AI units to the first bridge, without attacking my armies, which are now in their flank. I expanded all my arrows, killing hundreds with the AI units just sitting there and dying.

Thanks guys for the good discussion.

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] ]Absolutely. I always attack accross the other bridge, which the AI never defends. At that point its algorithm, for some reason, brings the AI units to the first bridge, without attacking my armies, which are now in their flank. I expanded all my arrows, killing hundreds with the AI units just sitting there and dying.


Beware of those few times they do send thier army on 2 bridges. It can be quite dangerous, thanks to that you aren't used to it and often got weak defense on one bridge.