Creative Assembly Silver shield pikemen [Archive]

Nowake

04-22-2004, 10:44

Me thinks this and the Naked fanatics were posted in the same time.

Description

The silver shield pikemen (or argyraspids) are the embodiment of Seleucid martial prowess. They are elite foot soldiers on which many a battle will turn; they are disciplined and psihically fit, so these troops will neither panic nor tire easily.

These men use the 6m long pike (sarrisa) and carry a small shield coated in silver that gives them their name. To carry the silver shield into battle is the realisation of many a Seleucid's boy dream, though only renowned men of higher birth would automatically qualify for such an honour.

Once in phanlax formation the silver shield pikemen are an almost immovable object if not attacked from the flanks. If the fighting becomes too intense and cramped, they can use their short swords.

Characteristics

Hardy
Disciplined
Inspires friendly units
Can form phanlax
Sapping ability

You can find them here (www.totalwar.com)

Basileus

04-22-2004, 10:52

Looks good, this one will be one tough SOB to kill in battle i think..

The Wizard

04-22-2004, 12:27

Yes, the argyraspids... their earliest form: the Seleucid hypaspist.

I wonder how they will progress through the game? Newer versions while the older ones remain vailable for production, or raher an 'evolution'?

Sir Robin

04-22-2004, 14:07

I am not finding them.

Maybe it was posted by mistake and pulled?

Ser Clegane

04-22-2004, 14:22

Quote[/b] (Sir Robin @ April 22 2004,08:07)]I am not finding them.

Maybe it was posted by mistake and pulled?
It's still there on totalwar.com (the above link has an error).

When you go to the 3D Unit Profiles it still seems to show the "Naked Fanatics" as default - just click on "Advance" then.

Spino

04-22-2004, 14:49

Uh, the Agyraspid pikeman has no face I see his body and armor and only part of his helmet which seems to be hanging in mid air

Anyway from what I can see the unit looks great... except for his shield which is too big. Phalangites didn't carry a hoplon but a smaller medium sized shield which was slung over their left shoulder. A necessary sacrifice in protection which made it easier for phalangites to wield their two handed sarissas.

Dead Moroz

04-22-2004, 14:57

Will all those units be so doubled up during the battle?

Just kidding http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif Good job, CA http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Mouzafphaerre

04-22-2004, 15:31

-
Spoiler Alert! Highlight to read. Not expert hiding in the forest?[/QUOTE] http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Joking. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
_

PSYCHO

04-22-2004, 15:34

Well, no expert on Agyraspids but I can tell you this.
I'm pissed that the Romans and Seleucids seem to get an historical reference (aka Velites, Hastati, Triarii, Agyraspids) but the Celts and Germans get nothing but cheesy dumbass names

..oh and this unit should be great fun to play with. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Spino, I think the skin is incomplete. There are blank / black spots that I can see through.

Cheers

Leet Eriksson

04-22-2004, 15:37

Well there name is Silver Sheild Pikmen,in the discreption they are called Agyraspids....so yes they are dumbed down like everyone else,except the romans :p

So far looks like an awesome unit to have in a seleucid army,also inspires friendly troops nearby,if any units were placed to protect its flanks,with the morale bonus(i think)they'll almost be an immovable fortress.Hmmm still i fear the multiplayer abuse of this unit... :p

shingenmitch2

04-22-2004, 15:44

Overall, VERY NICE. Interesting and historical http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

what I can see of it... the Phrygian helmet looks very good --- although on the front, the appearance of a "nasal piece" instead of a "brim" is odd.. looks like there is some sort of black painted design on the forehead section and thus it is blending into the black background of the unit profile section making it hard to see.

"... except for his shield which is too big. Phalangites didn't carry a hoplon but a smaller medium sized shield"

Actually the shield size is about right for a sarissa pikeman. Though, yes, it technically should be slung from the shoulder with a strap, and it's position should slide up the arm a bit more so that the hand was nearer to the rim of the shield. However, I'm sure that these were completely impractical details to illustrate/3d model --- undoubtedly all shields need to be handled in about the same way.

[Spino: The argive shield of the traditional hoplite would actually be bigger -- the bowl of the sheild reaching the shoulder and the lip of the shield extening up to near the chin.]

Not sure if the Selucids would be using the dress of Alexanders "eastern" army -- but I'm guessing they would --- so instead of bare legs and sandals, he probably should have "Persian" multi-colored trousers and shoes.

Spino

04-22-2004, 15:56

Quote[/b] ]I'm pissed that the Romans and Seleucids seem to get an historical reference (aka Velites, Hastati, Triarii, Agyraspids) but the Celts and Germans get nothing but cheesy dumbass names

I agree. But take some comfort in knowing that this will be one of the easiest things to mod in RTW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Quote[/b] ]Spino, I think the skin is incomplete. There are blank / black spots that I can see through.

Then why was it posted in the first place? I don't think CA would have given the green light to showcase an incomplete unit so I am inclined to think something went wrong when the unit was translated into Flash format.

PSYCHO

04-22-2004, 16:13

Not sure why Spino, not a techy myself, but on my version he is missing some chest work and I think the black on the helmet and nasal piece is also a bit missing.I can see through his chest into his body so it's definitely not just a colouring issue.

Yes, shingenmitch2 and very nice historically based unit.

faisal, at least these guys get some historical context mentioned in the descript. The Germans and Celts get nothing. Just some vague generic mumbo jumbo.

Barkhorn1x

04-22-2004, 17:14

This was posted on the .COM forum by a Dev.;

"Sorry everyone.

There seems to have been a little blooper here. The wrong image has been posted up.

Due to Shogun being rather poorly at the moment there has been a glitch in the usual smooth presentation of the site.

The image will be replaced as soon as we can get a spare moment. As you can appreciate, we are all working feverishly hard to get the game to a very high standard for your delectation and amusement.

TTFN

C.I.F"

So...this is interesting, wonder what tomorrow will bring.

Barkhorn.

The Wizard

04-22-2004, 17:15

Well, shingenmitch, the unit we see in the description carries a normal hoplite spear (lost the name), so we can't really see how the shield is carried while the unit is wielding the sarrissa.

Edit:: Well, this is interesting news. Are we going to get an inaccurate depiction now? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Spino

04-22-2004, 17:43

Call me crazy but I believe that when posted, the correct unit will be a sarissa wielding Agyraspid with a smaller shield... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

In light of this incomplete unit posting we may have reason to believe there will be a standard hoplite version of the Agyraspids as well, giving us three different versions of the same unit (Agyraspid hoplites, phalangites & legionaries)

The Wizard

04-22-2004, 17:51

Actually, looking at it, it seems to me like the standard-issue Hellenistic pikeman.

The argyraspids were seen in action in the Time Commanders episode of Raphia, where they indeed had pikes, smaller shields, and less armor than their colleagues, the normal Seleucid pikemen.

Hurin_Rules

04-22-2004, 17:57

I'm confused-- are these elite troops (hypaspists) or regulars (phalangites)?

I thought that Alexander's phalangites fought with a smaller shield and full-length sarissa (6m), whereas hypastpists fought with a full shield and smaller spear (2m).

These seem to be a hybrid.

The Wizard

04-22-2004, 18:03

These are Seleucid 'hypaspists', to take liberties. They were pikemen of a sort but were extremely well-trained and drilled, as well as proffessionals. They were all Greek or Macedonian nobility, thus their loyalty to the crown was (usually) unquestionable, since they needed the king to maintain their position as nobles.

They didn't fight as hypaspists, for they didn't function as elite, hardcore units of quick infantry to cover the flanks of the phalanx. They were simply a harder phalanx, which could hold out longer in the 'meat grinder', to use a Nusbacher quote. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

Spino

04-22-2004, 18:05

Quote[/b] ]The argyraspids were seen in action in the Time Commanders episode of Raphia, where they indeed had pikes, smaller shields, and less armor than their colleagues, the normal Seleucid pikemen.

I remember seeing that too but I took it as a sign of the incomplete nature of the game and the fact that the producers of TC would mix and match units from different factions to make the armies seen in the shows. Anyway, according to the developers all TC episodes sported a much older build of the RTW engine. I can only imagine that most of the 3d models were old as well with only a handful being upgraded as the show progressed (i.e. TC's barbarian units which look much cruder than the updated ones we've seen posted at the official site lately).

shingenmitch2

04-22-2004, 18:11

If that is supposed to sarissa pikeman then the shield is fine. (how small do you think the reduced argive was? It wasn't a buckler.) As far as I know the shields of the "Silver shields" were no different in specs. than those of other pikeman -- other than they had a silver facing.

If it is a hoplite-spearman, then the shield is too small. (an argive shield is quite large)
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

In time commanders I've yet to see a pike weilded with 2 hands (as they should), they are instead animated as a one-handed under-arm stab. I assumed this had to do with animation/programming difficulties of showing it correctly.

-------------
These aren't hypaspysts -- who, I believe, were an elite hoplite-like formation that covered the flank of the Sarissa/Macedonian phalanx.

These are the Selucid silver shields (adopted from Alexander) which were an elite section of the Sarissa/Macedonianphalanx itself.

Aymar de Bois Mauri

04-22-2004, 18:36

Quote[/b] (shingenmitch2 @ April 22 2004,12:11)]If that is supposed to sarissa pikeman then the shield is fine. (how small do you think the reduced argive was? It wasn't a buckler.) As far as I know the shields of the "Silver shields" were no different in specs. than those of other pikeman -- other than they had a silver facing.
I disagree. The shield of the phalangites was quite a lot smaller than this one, as someone mentioned above. It was almost a buckler.

Also, that is clearly not a sarissae (6m). It needed to have 3x the height of the soldier. That doesn't happen.

Quote[/b] ]If it is a hoplite-spearman, then the shield is too small.
Agreed.

Quote[/b] ]In time commanders I've yet to see a pike weilded with 2 hands (as they should), they are instead animated as a one-handed under-arm stab. I assumed this had to do with animation/programming difficulties of showing it correctly.
Yeap. I agree with that too.

Quote[/b] ]These aren't hypaspysts -- who, I believe, were an elite hoplite-like formation that covered the flank of the Sarissa/Macedonian phalanx.

These are the Selucid silver shields (adopted from Alexander) which were an elite section of the Sarissa/Macedonianphalanx itself.
Nope. Because of the shield and spear, they look much more like the hypapysts.

The_Emperor

04-22-2004, 19:21

Stil a very nice unit http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

The Wizard

04-22-2004, 20:01

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 22 2004,18:36)]
Quote[/b] (shingenmitch2 @ April 22 2004,12:11)]If that is supposed to sarissa pikeman then the shield is fine. (how small do you think the reduced argive was? It wasn't a buckler.) As far as I know the shields of the "Silver shields" were no different in specs. than those of other pikeman -- other than they had a silver facing.
I disagree. The shield of the phalangites was quite a lot smaller than this one, as someone mentioned above. It was almost a buckler.

Also, that is clearly not a sarissae (6m). It needed to have 3x the height of the soldier. That doesn't happen.

Quote[/b] ]If it is a hoplite-spearman, then the shield is too small.
Agreed.

Quote[/b] ]In time commanders I've yet to see a pike weilded with 2 hands (as they should), they are instead animated as a one-handed under-arm stab. I assumed this had to do with animation/programming difficulties of showing it correctly.
Yeap. I agree with that too.

Quote[/b] ]These aren't hypaspysts -- who, I believe, were an elite hoplite-like formation that covered the flank of the Sarissa/Macedonian phalanx.

These are the Selucid silver shields (adopted from Alexander) which were an elite section of the Sarissa/Macedonianphalanx itself.
Nope. Because of the shield and spear, they look much more like the hypapysts.
Aymar, this is the wrong pic. It's supposed to be fixed soon, however.

Aymar de Bois Mauri

04-22-2004, 20:29

Quote[/b] (The Wizard @ April 22 2004,14:01)]
Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 22 2004,18:36)]
Quote[/b] (shingenmitch2 @ April 22 2004,12:11)]If that is supposed to sarissa pikeman then the shield is fine. (how small do you think the reduced argive was? It wasn't a buckler.) As far as I know the shields of the "Silver shields" were no different in specs. than those of other pikeman -- other than they had a silver facing.
I disagree. The shield of the phalangites was quite a lot smaller than this one, as someone mentioned above. It was almost a buckler.

Also, that is clearly not a sarissae (6m). It needed to have 3x the height of the soldier. That doesn't happen.

Quote[/b] ]If it is a hoplite-spearman, then the shield is too small.
Agreed.

Quote[/b] ]In time commanders I've yet to see a pike weilded with 2 hands (as they should), they are instead animated as a one-handed under-arm stab. I assumed this had to do with animation/programming difficulties of showing it correctly.
Yeap. I agree with that too.

Quote[/b] ]These aren't hypaspysts -- who, I believe, were an elite hoplite-like formation that covered the flank of the Sarissa/Macedonian phalanx.

These are the Selucid silver shields (adopted from Alexander) which were an elite section of the Sarissa/Macedonianphalanx itself.
Nope. Because of the shield and spear, they look much more like the hypapysts.
Aymar, this is the wrong pic. It's supposed to be fixed soon, however.
I know that. Someone mentioned it before. I was commenting the image.

shingenmitch2

04-22-2004, 21:08

"If that is supposed to sarissa pikeman then the shield is fine...."

Aymar de Bois Mauri: "I disagree. The shield of the phalangites was quite a lot smaller... "

Then we agree to disagree http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Here's an accurate picture of Alexander's Silver Shields, and unless the Selucids further shrunk them, they aren't all that small...

HAT.COM Phalangites (http://www.hat.com/Curr/Curr8043.html)

Galestrum

04-22-2004, 21:34

shin, dont worry aymar disagrees with everybody about anything http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Spino

04-22-2004, 21:42

Shingen you so crazy... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Shields... must... be... SMALLER

(but only a wee little bit) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1855321106.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://www.livius.org/a/1/greeks/falanx.jpg

Cebei

04-22-2004, 21:46

Ermm... is a silver shield good choice concerning cost/protection determinant.

And welcome Aymar http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif youve been off for a while

Aymar de Bois Mauri

04-22-2004, 22:56

Quote[/b] (shingenmitch2 @ April 22 2004,15:08)]"If that is supposed to sarissa pikeman then the shield is fine...."

Aymar de Bois Mauri: "I disagree. The shield of the phalangites was quite a lot smaller... "

Then we agree to disagree http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Here's an accurate picture of Alexander's Silver Shields, and unless the Selucids further shrunk them, they aren't all that small...

HAT.COM Phalangites (http://www.hat.com/Curr/Curr8043.html)
Accurate? That's an artist impression How can you be sure of it's accuracy? A lot of mistakes have been made by artists. Specially when some of them generalise that ALL Greek units should have "those Greek shields" that the Hoplites used...

BTW, I tend to be partial to Osprey's collection. Spino's post has explained it quite well...

Aymar de Bois Mauri

04-22-2004, 22:59

Quote[/b] (Galestrum @ April 22 2004,15:34)]shin, dont worry aymar disagrees with everybody about anything http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Is that an impression caused by a disagreement with me or by your stupidity? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thinking.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri

04-22-2004, 23:00

Quote[/b] (Cebei @ April 22 2004,15:46)]And welcome Aymar http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif youve been off for a while
Thanks Holidays and PC problems have kept me out of the forums... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

longjohn2

04-22-2004, 23:08

Just to clear up any confusion about the spear length, the in game version will have the full 6m as seen on TC

Aymar de Bois Mauri

04-22-2004, 23:12

Quote[/b] (longjohn2 @ April 22 2004,17:08)]Just to clear up any confusion about the spear length, the in game version will have the full 6m as seen on TC
Thanks for the imput, longjohn2 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Although, I was aware that the pic was wrong.

Longshanks

04-22-2004, 23:31

I'm still seeing the Night Raiders & can't advance. I always get to see the new units after most people. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

Anyway how about an exclusively Carthaginian unit next time? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

RisingSun

04-22-2004, 23:44

I still don't know why the skin isn't fixed. Put a new picture up, silly. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Galestrum

04-23-2004, 03:29

Murmandamus

04-23-2004, 04:07

Quote[/b] (Longshanks @ April 23 2004,09:31)]I'm still seeing the Night Raiders & can't advance. I always get to see the new units after most people. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

Try hitting refresh (F5) then advancing or click the links below

Birthday suit raider (http://www.totalwar.com/community/naked.swf)
Silver shield, big pointy stick guy (http://www.totalwar.com/community/silver.swf)

Aymar de Bois Mauri

04-23-2004, 04:35

Quote[/b] (Galestrum @ April 22 2004,21:29)]
Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 22 2004,16:59)]
Quote[/b] (Galestrum @ April 22 2004,15:34)]shin, dont worry aymar disagrees with everybody about anything http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Is that an impression caused by a disagreement with me or by your stupidity? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thinking.gif
the former, i leave the latter to your inestimable ability for it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
So, it checks out. Stupidity is the name of your game... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thinking.gif ...oh, well Your problem... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

shingenmitch2

04-23-2004, 18:52

Spino, those pics support my point http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

The shields in your pics are the virtually the same size as the one in the "silver shield" unit. The first pic shows it slung up around the shoulder there, so it is in a different position, but look how much of the body it covers --- from above shoulder to the waist. (be aware that the waist /where pteruges start on the EA unit is much higer up because of the linen curaiss... so the Alexander pic the guy has muscled curaiss and the waist is lower--- bottom of muscled is about the same as the top of the grey skirt on the EA unit)

And in the full phalanx pic, they might be even larger. The whole torso is covered by the shield. Compare that to EA's unit and how much of the torso that shield covers.

------------

Aymar --

Yep an artists impression, but an accurate one from everything I read. But I have no way to convince you if you if u don't want. At least I tried to show you a historical illustration to support my point. Show me something to back up yours. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

shingenmitch2

04-23-2004, 18:56

LongJohn ---

I just saw the revised Silver shield unit --- AWESOME He's even got the brim on the Phrygian helmet... now that's what I'm talking about

Question about pike length. Apparently Alexender's pikes were of the short variety 13' ish and so his phalanx was very maneuverable. The successor states had very long ones and thus their phalanx became much less mobile.

Will there be any difference in some of the Phalanxes such that some have short pikes and turn better, while others are longer, more defensive, but also less maneuverable?

Spino

04-23-2004, 20:45

Quote[/b] ]Spino, those pics support my point

The shields in your pics are the virtually the same size as the one in the "silver shield" unit. The first pic shows it slung up around the shoulder there, so it is in a different position, but look how much of the body it covers --- from above shoulder to the waist. (be aware that the waist /where pteruges start on the EA unit is much higer up because of the linen curaiss... so the Alexander pic the guy has muscled curaiss and the waist is lower--- bottom of muscled is about the same as the top of the grey skirt on the EA unit)

And in the full phalanx pic, they might be even larger. The whole torso is covered by the shield. Compare that to EA's unit and how much of the torso that shield covers.

Yes, I think I may have to concede the point. The more I look at the Silver Shield Pikeman the more I think his shield is perfectly in scale with those seen in the two pics I posted. In the 'full phalanx' pic the men are leaning forward as they charge so the size is about the same as the one from the Campaign series book cover. However, I will say the shields shown on the minatures box art illustration you posted are still too big, they really are too large. I guess the coloration of the Silver Shield Pikeman's shield and the fact that the soldier unit is holding it lower than he normally would when positioned in a phalanx threw my judgement off.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif back to you... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

RisingSun

04-23-2004, 22:38

The new model's shield ain't so silver. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri

04-23-2004, 22:58

Quote[/b] (shingenmitch2 @ April 23 2004,12:52)]Spino, those pics support my point http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

The shields in your pics are the virtually the same size as the one in the "silver shield" unit. The first pic shows it slung up around the shoulder there, so it is in a different position, but look how much of the body it covers --- from above shoulder to the waist. (be aware that the waist /where pteruges start on the EA unit is much higer up because of the linen curaiss... so the Alexander pic the guy has muscled curaiss and the waist is lower--- bottom of muscled is about the same as the top of the grey skirt on the EA unit)

And in the full phalanx pic, they might be even larger. The whole torso is covered by the shield. Compare that to EA's unit and how much of the torso that shield covers.
It's not EA, it's CA.

Quote[/b] ]Aymar --

Yep an artists impression, but an accurate one from everything I read.
So, you think that, in the pic you've shown, the shield has the same size as the ones on the Osprey book? I don't think so, but I might be wrong.

But you have to agree that the spear he carries is not a sarissae... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink.gif

shingenmitch2

04-24-2004, 03:23

Aymar, that post was a joke, yes?

Aymar de Bois Mauri

04-24-2004, 15:01

Quote[/b] (shingenmitch2 @ April 23 2004,21:23)]Aymar, that post was a joke, yes?
Sorry. What I meant was:

Quote[/b] ]So, you think that, in the pic you've shown, the shield has the same size as the ones on the Osprey book? I don't think so, but I might be wrong.
I was refering to your image and to Spino's Osprey ones.

Quote[/b] ]But you have to agree that the spear he carries is not a sarissae...
I was refering to the .COM Flash image.

Kraxis

04-26-2004, 12:52

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 22 2004,16:59)]
Quote[/b] (Galestrum @ April 22 2004,15:34)]shin, dont worry aymar disagrees with everybody about anything http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Is that an impression caused by a disagreement with me or by your stupidity? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thinking.gif
Nono... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif You are just in disagreement with everything the official page shows. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Now to the serious part. Yes the shield is too big, but not as much as some wants it to be. It fits quite well with the Osprey books and the fact that they were supposed to have been around 60cm in diameter. This shield is perhaps 70cm or 65cm, not too much to be impossible for some sort of elite troops that are better trained. So the shield discussion is really not that important.

The helmet looks great, I love that style of helmets, they remind me of the 19th century cavalry helmets. Though a Thracian helmet would have been even better with its slightly lesser cap style and nice brim.

The spear is not good, but we can hope it only looks like this because the ends would vanish if it was the correct length (apparently there is a limit on the depth of the image).

The grip of the shield is also incorrect, but as noted before, it seems CA has had some problems with twohanded styles of fighting. Then this is ok, not that that doesn't mean I don't want twohanded wielding NOW

About the sword...
What I have seen in TC is that the unit will try to keep its pike/spear for as long as possible. So initially they don't use swords at all (TC Raphia is good as it has pikemen against each other). It seems after some time the pike will 'break' and the sword must be used. Possibly the guy will also use the sword when the enemy is too close, but I'm not so sure about it from what I saw in TC Marathon. There a unit of hoplites charged in with their spears in an upright position (clearly the handler had made a mistake and not the lieutenant), later they seem to be fighting with their spears. Though it is hard to be certain that is in fact the same unit.

Captain Fishpants

04-26-2004, 15:53

The spears on the sample units are all shorter than they appear in the game, otherwise the spinning animation doesn't look very good

Aymar de Bois Mauri

04-26-2004, 16:50

Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ April 26 2004,09:53)]The spears on the sample units are all shorter than they appear in the game, otherwise the spinning animation doesn't look very good
Thanks for the info, Captain Fishpants http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

I won't bug you anymore about the spear size... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri

04-26-2004, 16:55

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ April 26 2004,06:52)]
Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ April 22 2004,16:59)]
Quote[/b] (Galestrum @ April 22 2004,15:34)]shin, dont worry aymar disagrees with everybody about anything http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Is that an impression caused by a disagreement with me or by your stupidity? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thinking.gif
Nono... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif You are just in disagreement with everything the official page shows. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
BUÀAAAAA That's not true Kraxis is making fun of me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-bigcry.gif

Barkhorn1x

04-26-2004, 17:46

Kraxis

04-28-2004, 16:20

Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ April 26 2004,09:53)]The spears on the sample units are all shorter than they appear in the game, otherwise the spinning animation doesn't look very good
YESSSS I was right Damn it feels good. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Quote[/b] ]BUÀAAAAA That's not true Kraxis is making fun of mehttp://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-bigcry.gif

There there... I want the right as a damn fanboi to make fun of nay-sayers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri

04-28-2004, 17:22

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ April 28 2004,10:20)]
Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ April 26 2004,09:53)]The spears on the sample units are all shorter than they appear in the game, otherwise the spinning animation doesn't look very good
YESSSS I was right Damn it feels good. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Quote[/b] ]BUÀAAAAA That's not true Kraxis is making fun of mehttp://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-bigcry.gif

There there... I want the right as a damn fanboi to make fun of nay-sayers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
So, now I'm a nay-sayer? You really don't see the big picture, do you? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif