History of the Longbows

[PseRamesses]

Just finished an article, published in the latest number of the Swedish magazine "Popular History", regarding the history of the longbow.

In Denmark finds of longbows can be dated to around 200-400AD and in southern Germany from around 600AD. Several finds suggests that the vikings used longbows. The Welsh longbow is really a flat-bow which is a development and upgrade from the classical longbow. It made it´s entrance during the 100y war and is first portrayed in the battle at Crezy in 1346. This is the "longbow" that most people know about.
The classical longbow could fire 250 meters at max but accuray and impact was best at around 100 meters and they could fire around 7 arrows/ minute.

Just wanted to share this info since I´ve seen a lot of posts regarding longbows.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Thanks. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

In my current modlet I restricted them to be buildable only in Wales and Wessex, by anybody holding those provinces. Maybe I should alter it?
_

[Oleander Ardens]

I`ve studied the history of the "European" bow quite intensivly.

There are many different "simple" bow designs in Central/Northern Europe since as long as 8000BC. There are some excellent books on this issue, with bows from Germany, Denmark, Switzerland and Tyrol.

Note that this bows were a weapon of choice both for hunting and warfare, being powerful, neat weapons with a great deal of different arrowheads for all uses.

Some do resemble the "classic" english Langbow, while others used succesfully other patterns which allowed to carve smaller bows of equal power (different arms).


While the Compositebow was known in Central Europe as long as the Thracian-Cimmerian migrations in 900-700 BC it did never fully replace the fullwood bow.

Findings from the eastern Hallstatt culure show for example the use of Scythian merc. with their typical weapons, one of which being the doublecurved reflex composite bow.

A nice example of coexistence are the findings in Alemannic greaves which show two different types of wooden bows and the alan composite bow..

Type A is a easy-to-shoot "fast" bow best used for short-medium distances, ideal for the hunt and light skirmishers. The long grip is noteworhty.

Type B is a "longbow" design, better for longer distances...

Type C is the composite bow..

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (Mouzafphaerre @ April 22 2004,09:28)]In my current modlet I restricted them to be buildable only in Wales and Wessex, by anybody holding those provinces. Maybe I should alter it?
No I don´t think you should since the longbow prtrayed in the game is a Welsh one so I think you´re right to have it there and that Oleander Ardens is pointing out it´s just a matter of definition, right?

[MalibuMan]

Mwahahahahahaha I've finally found a way to bring physics to the org

Did you know that there is a reason why the 'English' longbow (fullwoods like yew) was less popular the further south you went, where they used composite bows etc. instead?

The properties of the wood change with temperature and humidity, so that in hotter climes it is nowhere near as elastic, so can't store as much energy for the shot (i.e. it's too easy to draw). It therefore becomes much less powerful compared to other designs, which it can beat hands down in e.g. England.

[solypsist]

Quote[/b] (PseRamesses @ April 22 2004,08:13)]Just wanted to share this info since I´ve seen a lot of posts regarding longbows.
Share it in the proper forum next time.

[Oleander Ardens]

Well the "Welsh" Longbow seems to be according to most authors the adaptation of the "german" and/or "scandinavian" longbow design.

We really do know very little about the use of the bow in Britain before the Roman invasion at all. Even less if the population used powerful bows of wood for war.

It's likely that it was also used in Britain, given the intensive links with central Europe, and the volume of trade in Europe since at least 1000BC. Would be rather surprising if they ignored missle weapons while trying to keep up-to-date on everything else, even when they were rather conservative in the later Bronze..

When than germanic groups sailed to Britain it is highly unlikely that they forgot to take their longbows with them; The Vikings too used a own typical variant of the longbow which is easily to recognize and used it against the locals..

About the longbow being not suited to hot climates; I must confess that I highly doubt it;
Nobody with enough knowledge would use the longbow in the south and east because he performed there poorly, but because a good composite bow simply outclasses a longbow by far.

That the longbow was used at all after the composite bow found his way to central Europe 700BC was due to the bad climate and price..

One could say in fact that the longbow was the choice of the poor and the ones with bad weather~:D

[Leet Eriksson]

The Arabs used some sort of longbow in the dark ages from 400AD until 750 AD when the composite bow become much more important,although the arab longbow was superior it lost popularity,probably becuase the prefernce of later islamic armies on mounted archers over foot archers,becuase its impossible to use a longbow while mounted.

If lined perfectly the longbow could stop cavalry charges cold,although that might not hold true for heavier cavalry,due to the use of light/medium cavalry over armoured ones becuase of climate.

[CBR]

But the English got the best yew for their longbows in Spain and Italy. The local colder climate wasnt as good.


CBR

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

The men of Chester and Macchesfield were renown for there archers in England. In the medieval time there would have no such name as a longbow but warbow or greatbow

[Lazul]

Its not 100% confirmed but the Swedes used longbows in "english style" to defeat the Danes in the 1200 something...
A little like Agincurt Light... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Auxilia]

I too have discovered the existence of the longbow in Scandanavian countries - and this is a Welshman speaking - good on yer lads - congrats on your excellent taste in missile weapons http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Oleander Ardens]

Interesting Faisal, could you give some more info on that?
Was this "longbow" a simple "long" bow of simply made of wood, or was it a bigger composite bow which differed from the composite bows of other islamic cultures in shape and size? For example being simply recurved and less reflexed (earlier Persian infantry-archer design) and not doublecurved like the Scythian one?

There have been surely a great deal of names for powerful warbows only carved out of wood, especially if you consider that great deal of different designs which determine the shoothing characteristics of it...

[Leet Eriksson]

Quote[/b] ]although the arab longbow was superior it lost popularity

I'm qouting myself here,i did'nt mean to compare it to the british longbow,becuase i don't really know the difference,though i do know its superior to other bows used by arabs later,but since it was "long"it became pretty hard to use especially on horse back,also arab generals did'nt give it any significance,thats why its lost in history.

The Longbow was made from an extremly durable wood called Ghafh that grows in the southern regions(back then to the arabs south was east)where the mountainous climate is a bit cooler,wich allows other trees to grow besides the palm trees.describing it is pretty hard though,its not your run of the mill recurve composite bow,it looks a bit like the british one except that its slightly curved at both ends.

One interesting aspect of the long bow the arabs used was,unlike the british bow,normal arrows were used,not the armour peircing types used by the british longbow,this made it pretty useless when more compact bows were available.

I used to have the site of the bow,but it seems a lost it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[squippy]

Quote[/b] (Oleander Ardens @ April 23 2004,03:53)]We really do know very little about the use of the bow in Britain before the Roman invasion at all. Even less if the population used powerful bows of wood for war.
I'm not aware of bowes featuring prominently in Celtic British or Continental grave sites. Certainly they are reported as using bows, but they do not seem to have been prestige weapons. The warrior elite fought with javelin, spear and chariot.