CA: Please include a PDF manual

[Doug-Thompson]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I'd rather have a decent, readable manual in a PDF format than have a paper one that's small enough to fit in those little boxes.

I don't know if there's a licensing fee to be paid or what, but unless there is some such good reason, I'd be perfectly pleased to do without a paper manual entirely and just put the file on the game disc.

If there is one on the MTW disc, I can't find it.

[RisingSun]

Except then, you have to print it out for it to be easy to flip between pages, wasting hundreds of sheets of your paper rather than theirs.

[Spino]

I'd rather have both. An organized and well written paper manual along with a pdf version in case I lose the manual.

Aside from this I could really go for a hotkey guide printed out on glossy, heavy stock paper.

[Togakure]

I favor both, but if only one were to be made available, I'd prefer a hardcopy. I do most of my reading away from the computer, when in transit and unable to do much else. I could print out the .pdf, but as someone has already pointed out, that's my time, paper, ink and wear on my printer.

[Murmandamus]

You're crazy. Apart from being able to read it away from a pc as already mentioned. Having it as pdf makes it a pain to refer to while playing. Especially if the game can't handle alt-tabbing.

pdf only manuals suck and don't get me started on cd's being distributed in paper sleves rather than a proper case. Especially if the game requires the cd to play. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

I'd tolerate a pdf manual and cheapskate paper sleves if they also dropped the price by 10%. But if I'm going to pay full price, I expect a full product.

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (Spino @ April 26 2004,19:55)]Aside from this I could really go for a hotkey guide printed out on glossy, heavy stock paper.

Amen to that.

I can understand wanting a "travel copy." Perhaps my view is biased by having a laptop available. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

It may be our own paper, but at least it would be on 8 by 10 inch paper, more than twice the size of the pamphlets that will fit in a modern computer game box.

I don't get the difficulty of referring to in the game argument, though. I presume we'll still be able to pause the game, hit the Windows button, refer to the manual, close it and click back on "Rome Total War" in the taskbar. I have to do that with MTW occasionally when something pops up and I need to use the computer. The only bad effect is that the weather keeps changing even when you're in pause. I've pulled the game back up sometimes and found that it's raining now.

[Captain Fishpants]

The manual is on my "to do" list - in fact, I should be doing it rather than typing this - but I doubt that there will be a .pdf version. For some jobs paper is still the most satisfactory way of delivering information, and the look-up ability of a manual is one of them.

Hopefully, once you'll learned the controls, you shouldn't need to carry the manual with you on Rome: Total War. We're trying very hard to make this an easy-to-play, hard-to-master game, and providing lots of in-game help through Victoria, the campaign advisor and Centurion Marcus, the battlefield advisor.

[Knight_Yellow]

I like to display my Cases and manuals on my shelf wich you can see if you are out in my hall.

i take great pride in my collection of games and preffer heavy duty nicely decorated manuals.

i usualy never read them beyond the 20 minutes waiting for my pizza in pizza hut and then the 10 minutes installing. (a little ritual i have when buying games)

so yeah im chuffed.

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ April 27 2004,06:45)]For some jobs paper is still the most satisfactory way of delivering information, and the look-up ability of a manual is one of them.
Ah well. Thanks for the quick reply, though. Looks like your customers agree.

So much for the paperless society. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif

[frogbeastegg]

You're writing the manual Captain Fishpants? Back when my beginner's guide was new Intrepid Sidekick was doing it. Is it a joint job or has he got time off for good behaviour?

Hurrah for paper manuals, especially large and detailed ones A small cheer for any extras like tech trees and hotkey cards, that small cheer can be increased to a large cheer with a bit of waving if you put the aforementioned items on really good paper like the original UK shogun release. Of course that is down to the publishers...

[Nelson]

Let's hear it for big, bold, bodacious, book-like manuals

It will need to:

have squint deterring large print for us geezers,
include ALL of the features,
and come with a large colorful tech tree schematic.

After getting the CGW calendar I have high expectations.

[The_678]

I agree that I love a proper book-like maual best. I just hope it has everything needed in it and not some stupid worthless thing like the manual for BF:V. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[spmetla]

While I prefer paper manuals I do tend to lose it as time passes and when I lend games to my friends (especially the more complicated)they usually complain about the lack of a manual.

Couldn't a PDF manual just be included as well?

[Doug-Thompson]

At the risk of sounding like a sore loser, I have to mention that 500,000 or a million handbooks with color covers and illustrations costs a heck of a lot of money.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Real manuals are really rare these days. It's all the fault of shops which insist on Jewel cases rather than cardboard boxes because the save on shelf space. Cardboard boxes are so much better. I mean, I used to have this really old game called Dawn patrol. It came in this huuuuuge, wonderful box, which was made out of high quality cardboard, with copious amounts of metallic paint. Inside there was not only a huge manual but an A4 FULLY ILLUSTRATED BIOGRAPHY OF MANNFRED VON RICHHOFEN It was about two hundred pages long I literally could not believe it And this wasn't some special deal either-everyone got it. Now THAT'S class...

[The Wizard]

Yes, hears to big, bad, nice manuals, or at least nice manuals that are well-designed yet compact

*remembers with glee the old Impressions manuals.. ahhh*



~Wiz

[Rosacrux]

Manual? What manual? Who cares about the bloodymanual...

GAH Me want game NOW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif

[Knight_Yellow]

Quote[/b] (Doug-Thompson @ April 27 2004,20:57)]At the risk of sounding like a sore loser, I have to mention that 500,000 or a million handbooks with color covers and illustrations costs a heck of a lot of money.
cost of 50,000 manuals.

£50,000.

cost of 50,000 sold copies of the game

1,500,000


profits minus costs

1,450,000.

[Ser Clegane]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ April 28 2004,05:52)]
Quote[/b] (Doug-Thompson @ April 27 2004,20:57)]At the risk of sounding like a sore loser, I have to mention that 500,000 or a million handbooks with color covers and illustrations costs a heck of a lot of money.
cost of 50,000 manuals.

£50,000.

cost of 50,000 sold copies of the game

1,500,000


profits minus costs

1,450,000.
Net profit margin of Activision: 7.6%

Cost of manual (according to KY back-of-the-envelope calculation): ~3% of sales

Conclusion: decsion whether to include manual or not for the same retail price would have 30-40% impact on profits

(of course this most probably would not be the impact, just wanted to nitpick on a rather simplified profit calculation...
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )

EDIT: BTW, I love fancy printed manuals and would usually be willing to pay for them (at-cost-basis)

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ April 28 2004,02:41)]Manual? What manual? Who cares about the bloodymanual...

GAH Me want game NOW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif
Hey, Wiz http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif Bring the strait-jacket Rosacrux doesn't care about explicit manuals besides the unhistorical units anymore http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-end.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-cry.gif

[The Wizard]

My my, we might as well give the Persians the all-out green victory card over the Greeks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Anyway, it depends on the amount of copies sold whether the manual is cost-friendly or not. The larger the revenue, the smaller the percentage that the costs of making manuals occupies. Then there are the variable costs, the constant costs, the average variable costs, the average constant costs... need I continue? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif



~Wiz

[Tricky Lady]

I'd like to have a nicely printed manual too. Reading the manual is part of the install-the-game ritual. I wouldn't want to give this up. If the game comes without manual/tech tree/other extras, I might as well download a cracked game from a p2p network...
Luckily there WILL be a nice manual, so I'll buy the game http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Intrepid Sidekick]

Quote[/b] (frogbeastegg @ April 27 2004,07:28)]You're writing the manual Captain Fishpants? Back when my beginner's guide was new Intrepid Sidekick was doing it. Is it a joint job or has he got time off for good behaviour?

I wish it was time off for good behaviour. No. I have a huge number of tasks sitting on my over stuffed plate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif and Captain Fishpants has faster fingers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif