To CA:

[Antalis::]

To CA:


http://www.mastersgames.de/images/xploring/rtw/rtw_camp_04.jpg

http://www.mastersgames.de/images/xploring/rtw/rtw_camp_05.jpg




Should I say more?


I loved the risiko-style of the campaignmap of MTW: Now such giants walking through a landscape...

Please rework this. At least make them smaller.


Ok that overview looks ok, but when you zoom in it looks not really good, because all things are much too big.
Try to make them smaller when you zoom in.
http://www.mastersgames.de/images/xploring/rtw/karteninterface.jpg

[[DnC]]

I disagree. I think they look rather nice for a representation of an army or agent.

[Shahed]

I have no idea how RTW will work but I do remember having 25 full stacks in multiple provinces in MTW. Again I do not knw how RTW will work but in MTW I VERY often had many stacks in the same province and making them large may make the map overview look ugly.

Considering this I would recommend that the stack man (or whatever it's called) be smaller and more detailed when zoomed in.

[Myrddraal]

I agree

Those things are gonna clock up the campmap. Its great to have 3D representations of armies, but make them smaller

[Ashen]

aye those things are far too big. Plus the terrain is pretty poor. im guessing thats a very early build for the zoomed in terrain map.

oh oh oh

Look at the zoomed out shot closely. I remember some debate on purple romans in a couple of screens and people debating who and what they were. I think that pretty much prooves that they were senate troops.

[Sir Robin]

I think the little greek map in one of the previews is the latest working on the strategic map.

Don't mind the big agents/armies because I will spend most of my time zoomed out.

[Tricky Lady]

Hmm, I actually like this. It looks very nice.
But I agree with Sinan that the men should be resized a bit.
On the other hand, when zoomed out, the map looks (graphically) already far less interesting. CA still has a few months to fix this though. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Nigel]

I have to agree with Antalis,

the "giants", 2x bigger than houses, pretty much spoil any feel of a nice 3D landscape. Would not have been so bad if they had been more abstract symbols, like the chess piece style of symbols in MTW, or perhaps flags only.

Not sure how much scope for change there still is, but just making them smaller would be a big improvement.

Zoomed out map looks ok. But I guess you will want to zoom in often to spot raw materials and strategic landscape featuers.

[Swoosh So]

from what ive seen the camp map will be an utter mess those pics are only of a zoomed in part urg

[Spino]

Heh, those screenshots look like something out of some wacky Hollyweird epic about pagan gods...

*cues cheesy music*

It was an age of wonder, of beauty, of mystery...

It was an age when GODS WALKED THE EARTH http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

Ok, seriously now. Some of you guys are a little too obsessed with the size of the strategic units. Keep in mind that the new screenshots of the strategic map are zoomed in close-ups. Also take into account that the screenshots are zoomed in close-ups of the Greek provinces which are relatively tiny compared to other provinces on the map, making the strategic units seem unusually large and crowded together in the small available space. Move the view to virtually anywhere else on the map and the strategic units should look just fine.

It certainly looks as if there are two different versions of the map on display. What struck me was the large number of armies stationed in the Greek provinces. This does make me worry about the AI and how it will handle such positioning but the following text gives me hope:

With this army personally arranged by you you make you on the way to attack either an opponent or but to fight an enemy penetrated into your area. Here the removal of the Legion on the strategy map is to be regarded exactly, that in the place where the putting ions meets we fought. That should one as a good field gentleman naturally too use myself make and meeting the putting ions moving in real time gestallten in such a way that we expect the enemy with sunrise with the back standing to the sun on a hill. Altogether one can provide some advantages by skillful setting up of the putting ions on the strategy map. Also one can fasten already good strategies on the strategy map, since during the battle runs the time continues and thus in a battle e.g. over 1 day another army goes emerge can. This one can use then e.g. for putting an ambush, by hiding e.g. the first army visibly on the strategy map positioned and in the adjacent forests the second army, in order then the enemy during it with the first army fights in the backs to fall (however the first army must hold the position so long).

Well it now seems evident that all those armies crowding the Greek countryside can be mutually supportive to one another so long as they are within a day's march of the battlefield The potential for nearby allied and/or enemy armies to arrive as reinforcements at various times during the day means there will be plenty of times when we will be hopeful and/or fearful in anticipation of allied or enemy reinforcements reaching the battlefield. Good stuff CA http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Again, my greatest concern is how the strategic AI will handle such situations. Clearly RTW's strategic game is now much more complicated than its predecessors. For example, once a small AI controlled army is attacked by a larger enemy army will it know to retreat to better ground on the battlefield until nearby reinforcements will arrive? I sincerely hope the AI is capable of competently positioning and moving its armies, let alone able to give a veteran strategy gamer a decent challenge. *crosses fingers*

[Monk]

I think the first two screens look of an older build...why do i think that? the faction flags.

old rtw pic (http://strategyinformer.com/misc/screenshot-viewer.shtml?rometotalwar,50,23)

That's a link over to Strategy Informer, ok, that screen is about a year old, take a look at the banner. That Red-Black banner has not been shown for about one full year, even when we got screens of the faction selection screen, and movies showing movement through almost the whole map (gamestar movie) that banner/flag was not there. If i am wrong then please tell me, but until then i will have to dismiss this as an older build.

In fact, the links that they (first two screens) came from had older screens thrown in with them. Screens we were shown over a year ago that i still remember (and have printed out) For instance, One link has a set of three shows of a desert city, that same city can be found here:

older rtw screen (http://strategyinformer.com/misc/screenshot-viewer.shtml?rometotalwar,50,45)

that screen was posted on the RTW main page for a long time, it was released in the first lot of screens (if not first then soon afterward)

I could be wrong, but until i see otherwise i am gonna have to say it's an older build.

[Scipio]

There seems to be a semi-transparent dotted line deviding provinces in those pics of the strat map... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Dead Moroz]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_fainting.gif Holy shit Godzilla came back


I think the units on strategy map must be smaller. There are my reasons:
1. Big figures hinders to oversee the map.
2. It will be hard to place large number of different armies in small province or on island.
3. Big figures looks unrealistically and strange in comparison with small towns on the map. (imho)

Also I don't like that square red-black flags the units holds. The long nationally stylized flags (on the third pic of this post) are better. I hope that red-black flags are just from old version of the game.

[R'as al Ghul]

Calm down guys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

The linked page has a german article which says that the
screenies are from an early alpha version.
This should've improved already by now.

Cheers

R'as

[Oaty]

Wait till you see Goliath

[Myrddraal]

Quote[/b] (Nigel @ April 27 2004,20:14)]the "giants", 2x bigger than houses, pretty much spoil any feel of a nice 3D landscape.
What do u mean 2x bigger than houses???

u must mean 2x bigger than cities http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/jawdrop.gif

[lancelot]

and what are those blue dots over some of the landscape and in the sea?

Trade routes?

[Spino]

Quote[/b] (lancelot @ April 28 2004,07:50)]and what are those blue dots over some of the landscape and in the sea?

Trade routes?
The tears of Zeus... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Kraxis]

Depending on how long the armies can march I too would like smaller 'armies'. If they can all reach each other more or less in the two first maps, then there is little need for smaller icons, but if they can't and there is a large need for moving them about independently then I think they are too big.

But as Monk has shown, those two pics are most likely quite old. But I doubt the size of the icons have diminished much. I think Mike said something about it once quite some time ago, when there was some complaining about the size as well, something about hem getting smaller. So who knows?

[Intrepid Sidekick]

Those are very early screen shots of the campaign map.
It has improved considerably since then. The blue dots are no longer present and a number of the figures present in those screen shots are no longer current to the game http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

As for large playing pieces.
They have to be large so that you can see them when looking at an area the size of southern France, Switzerland and northern Italy combined and still differentiate them from a regions resources.

Each figure represents an army of up to 20 units or an agent such as a diplomat, assassin etc.
If we made them "realistic" you wouldn't be able to see them at all. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Because they animate and walk across the campaign map a chess piece is out of the question.

Intrepid Sidekick

[Barkhorn1x]

Quote[/b] (Intrepid Sidekick @ April 28 2004,09:46)]Those are very early screen shots of the campaign map.
It has improved considerably since then.

Because they animate and walk across the campaign map a chess piece is out of the question.

Intrepid Sidekick
Well there you go.

Works for me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Barkhorn.

[Kraxis]

Good

But I still fear the moving about such big figures if can only move a short distance. At least there won't be this many...

[Antalis::]

@Intrepid Sidekick:


I thought that this pics are actual screenshots, but anyway.
Its good that there were made changes.

So can you post one or two new screens?

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Thanks, Intrepid Sidekick http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Hey, guys Have you noticed the zoom on the images? They will appear much smaller, in the actual screen, for sure...

[alman9898]

I hope we can fast-forward the walking bit... I don't wanna wait all day for my emissary to walk from Rome to Gaul

[Myrddraal]

How about when u zoom in to a certain level, the size of the pieces decreases???

Is that possible http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[alman9898]

if we ZOOM IN, why would the pieces need to decrease? we're zooming in for a close-up... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Nigel]

Well, first off, it's good that things are beeing changed from what the old screenshots show.


I still have concerns about size and the walking of the armies.

Quote[/b] ]I hope we can fast-forward the walking bit...

I second that. Seeing them walk can be nice for the first few times, but could get really annouying as the game goes on and becomes lengthy.

In the end what you want is to ponder about the strategic map. Move things here and there, and back if you don't like the look of things, then when you're happy, press the End Turn button. Chess pieces, or just showing the flags, would be much better for this.


Maybe a solution would be a checkbox in the Options menue to show or not show the animated soldier icons on the strategic map.

[PSYCHO]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif I have to say, this is all rather silly.

I for one think that it is fantastic the way CA are depicting the Strategic map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[son of spam]

Fantastic for the first few seconds...then immeasurably annoying. When playing civ III, even with its fast animations of battles, I always find myself turning this feature off.

[PSYCHO]

So how would you rather it be depicted? Ala Risk?
If you use any other map model your either going to loose much of the great information provided or have a situation where that info will be transferred to text…and you’ll just get swamped with text pop-ups. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif NOT something I’d like to see. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif
An intuitive / easy to use graphical interface is always preferred imo.

my2bob

[SwordsMaster]

A good feature to be added, and one that is not really tough to implement is to allow you to create your own units a la RPG, with a number of points to be distributed.

say something like 12 points to distruibute between defence against cav, defence against missiles, attack, charge, morale, and so on.You copuld create your personalized armies...

[Myrddraal]

@SwordsMaster

Historical context????

You could make snipers who never miss but are bad in hand to hand, the game would just get more and more unrealistic.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rifle.gif

But I suppose it would be an option...

[SwordsMaster]

Quote[/b] (Myrddraal @ May 04 2004,10:16)]@SwordsMaster

Historical context????

You could make snipers who never miss but are bad in hand to hand, the game would just get more and more unrealistic.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rifle.gif

But I suppose it would be an option...
what about MP? and isnt it about what would you do if you were ruling that faction? well, you could want extremely precise archers, but with everything else tending to zero...
If you were a monarch, you couldtrain whatever troops you wanted...

take into account that the price of the unit would change accordingly...

[RisingSun]

Well, there is a new screenie of the map at IGN, and it looks much, much better.