if u likeClans Strategies in MP

[M.Cornelius Marcellus]

Hello all,
in MP forums I noticed that individual tactics and hints are well explained but almost nothing is said about how the team can cooperate.
I know that clans have their secrets(;)), but after the last final battle in competition anyway these secrets are revealed.

More over, in MP some battles are boring and some r equal to others u fought and after 2 days u cannot remember anything of them.
But sometimes happens that you fall in a very enjoining one or in a battle where some new concepts of team working are applied.
And some are interesting them selves: CWC, CWB, final & semi final and so on.

Isn’t it worth to put them on the paper?
Isn’t it worth to put on the paper the secrets of clans way of fighting together? ;)

Maybe it could be arranged a post or a link where to find summaries of these battles.
Every member interested in making his battles “lasting for ever” could put his summary there. And then maybe it could be attached the replay of that summary.

This could be the way to post a summary of these interesting battles.

1. Main

Main tactical or strategic concept that can be learned looking at the battle: i.e. general description of “the event or principle applied that decided the battle”. It could be a positive concept or event (new or traditional way of employing armies in an effective way) or negative like an error in deploying, reacting, etc.

2. Initial deployment info

Map name and short description of main characteristic of the map, i.e. “central hill dominating, key for advantage position”, etc.

Armies deployment info
Attackers
i. centre
ii. reserve
iii. right wing
iv. left wing

Defenders
v. centre
vi. reserve
vii. right wing
viii. left wing


It contains, in short, a description of the characteristics of each army: i.e.
Attackers’ left wing: mainly cav army with many horse archers;
Attackers’ centre: army balanced in cav inf and missile,
Attackers reserve: army mainly infantry with missile support.
....
.....
3. The battle

First phase: Approach/Skirmish
Second Phase: Melee
Third Phase Regroup/Final Conflict

It contains a short description of the battle with pictures (if possible), at least 1 per phase.

4. Link to replay (maybe?)

Soon it will follow an example.

Marcus

[Duke John]

Good idea I think some people need to open up and share more of their experiences.

When I finish my Wars of the Roses mod, I hope to get a group together that recreates the large battles in that period. If I can get that group together, I will certainly make battle reports with the armylists, initial tactics in mind and how the battle developed.

I think these kind of articles are an interesting read as people can see how armies interact and what effect a small event can have on the outcome of the battle.

Keep on going,
Duke John

[Gregoshi]

I'm moving this excellent suggestion to the Jousting Field forum.

There is a lot of work involved in putting something like this together, but judging by the enthusiastic responses from battle reports done in the past, I think reports like this would be very well received.

[M.Cornelius Marcellus]

Now an example (attackers left wing, centre, .... could be replaced by nicks):

1. Main

The battle was decided in the first phase by the impatient rush of right wing (Danish) of defenders well pressed by attackers missile and horse archers (Russians); and in the second phase by the late and disordered employment of melee infantry of the defenders’ left wing (Hungarians), after a good help of cavalry given to right flank collapsing from reserve (French) and left wing (Hungarians).

2. Initial deployment info

Map & florins: map name, 10k each.
Map with hill central for defenders light slope on left for both sides.

1. Armies deployment info
Attackers
i. left wing (Russians): cavalry army with many horse archers
ii. centre (French): balanced Muslim army with some camels
iii. reserve (Almohad): balanced army
iv. right wing (English): balanced army

Defenders
v. left wing (Hungarians): balanced army -
vi. reserve (French): balanced army
vii. centre (Aragonese): strong infantry army with few cav
viii. right wing (Danish): balanced army

1st phase Skirmish and Initial movement

Some attackers’ horse archers of left wing (Russians) on the right wing. Other horse archers and missiles (Russians) engaging defenders’ right flank. centre and reserve of both engaging each other. Defenders’ left (Hungarians) and Attackers’ right (English) consolidating position on slope and stand still.

2nd phase: melee

Defenders’ right wing suffers casualties by missiles and is “forced” to rush (Danish).
Good reaction and support from attackers’ reserve (Almohad): defenders’ right wing routs (Danish).

On collapsing right flank, support is coming from defenders’ reserve (French) and centre (Aragonese) and cavalry from left wing (Hungarians). Attackers’ units tired flee (Russian & Almohad), defenders chasing.
Attackers’ right wing moving to centre (English), defenders’ left infantry wing stand still (Hungarians).

Attackers attack in centre with main infantry force (English, French, Almohad).
Defenders’ left wing trying to engage centre of map: late and disordered movement engaged by Attackers’ right (English) and centre (French). Defenders’ left wing routs (Hungarians).

3rd phase: regroup and final

Remaining defenders regrouping centre (French & Aragonese) on the hill but few in numbers: after missiles duel and hand to hand, they rout.

I should put here a picture. I used powerpoint to obtain 2 jpeg of 80k (half an hour work).
I couldnt attach them on forum. Can someone help me in how to do that?


Marcus

[Nigel]

Excellent idea

in my (not all that long) time on MP I have fought many battles which were "just another battle". But quite a few which I think are memorable, or good examples of certain tactics, or just plain fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Not sure I I would want to go to the length of supplying all the detail you mention, but that could be optional. Sometimes, a shorter paragraph that summs up the essence of the ballte will be all it needs.

Oh jes, and perhaps a few lines which reproduce some of the hilareously funny conversations that can sometimes occur in battle chat
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif


As for putting pictures in your post, check out this (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=24;t=10398) link to the Mead Hall. They have a "how to do it" for uploading your pics and adding them to your post.

Oh yes, and Duke John, I am looking foreward to watching some battle re-enactments from the War of the Roses. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif

[Orda Khan]

I must commend you on your posting Marcus, this is another very nice idea. I suppose it would be kind of hard to supply this information about a catch game with unknown allies but for Clans and/or regular teams it would be very do able. I've done some battle reports with screen shots of key phases of the battle but that was simply telling a story. This idea of setting out the deployment and battle plan and then the actual battle report would make for some very interesting reading indeed.

......Orda

[tgi01]

Hmmm I guess I could tell Marcus about the secret kenchi tactics but but then when he dissapears suddenly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif ....

Anyways for a clan is not just positioning and strategy but also knowing the capabilities of players, you usually want some1 really good at 1 vs 1 to start your attacks , you want some1 who is patient and can keep an army together in the sacrificial position ( thats when 3 armies go to one side in a 4 vs 4 and leave the 4th dude in the path of the other team ) ... and so on ...


Generally if you have a clan team from the mored decent clans against you the worst thing ya can do is sit tight and see what happens ....~http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rolleyes.gif


TGI

[M.Cornelius Marcellus]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/story/MarcusCornVVII.jpg

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/story/MarcusCorneliusIIV.jpg

[M.Cornelius Marcellus]

Ok the pictures above took me half an hour work, but after i prepared all the simbols to use (army, arrows, hills ...). It s a powerpoint presentation converted in jpg. The simbols could be a standard to be downloaded (better improve my poor graphic before). Really the most effort is to look at the replay and try to make the story as neutral as possible .... difficult if u were one of the players. :)

Marcus

[Puzz3D]

These are two battle reports I wrote a year ago for a couple of CWC games. I had to review the replays several times before writing these reports which took a fair amount of time. TomisamaRW did make diagrams for these battles, but they are no longer available. The battles used mtw v1.1, so I don't see much point in posting the replays since they won't play back correctly in vi v2.01. I think a replay and description might be enough to understand what's going on in the battles without elaborate diagrams. So I post these here as examples of reports which try to point out the critical events as the battle unfolds with enough tactical detail to understand what happened.

Clan Takiyama vs. SPQR (3rd) Flatinland03 – 60k
-----------------------------------------------

The Takiyama order of battle was Toda (Italian) front left, JochiKhan (German) center, Yuuki (German) right all with balanced armies, and CBR (German) in the slot with 12 cav. Although we are the attackers, we deploy defensively near the back of our zones except for CBR who is near the front of his zone. The SPQR order of battle is Romulus (Spanish) left front, Agustus (Byzantine) center, Agrippa (Danes) right and Sacrifice in the slot all with balanced armies, although, Agustus has 6 Byz inf units. SPQR deploys for immediate attack near the front of their zones with their center shifted to their left for a big left side 3 on 2 attack.

The battle commences with pav arb exchance by Yuuki and Romulus, and Agrippa immediately attacking Toda out of column formation sending cav ahead with his infantry breaking into two prongs, one to frontally attack Toda and the other to flank him with some chiv foot coming up to support the cav. This appears to me to be a diversionary attack to pin CBR while the other 3 SPQR armies form up for the attack the right flank of Takiyama. One problem with this attack by Agrippa is that his cav get hung up on a Toda spear unit and Agrippa's chiv foot units, being very slow, do not arrive in time to save the cav. This does draw 4 of CBR's cav into the action, but it's all over rather quickly and I believe would have served better as a diversion if the fighting lasted longer.

Back on the SPQR left, Agustus moved up abreast of Romulus while Sacrifice split his forces into a cav group that went to the extreme left along with Romulus' cav, a chiv maa group that went to Romulus' center and a spear group that went to Agustus' center. The SPQR attack commenced forthwith with Romulus attacking Yuuki with spears sent forward against his front and Romulus and Sacrifice cav flanking to the SPQR left. After a short delay, Agustus began attacking JochiKhan with two cav and then his entire force, and Sacrifice sent his swords at Yuuki's front line.

Seeing Romulus and Sacrifice cav on his right, Yuuki shifted 2 swiss halbs from his left flank to his right giving a total of 4 swiss halb on his right flank. However, this left a gap between Yuuki and Jochi. Romulus sent 3 swords into this gap. One of the 3 flanked and attacked Yuuki's left most mil sgt which was already engaged, but seeing this Yuuki sent an 18 man Templar knight, which he had rallied, to counterflank the sword and both SPQR sword units were routed. Jochi engaged one of the other Romulus swords and routed it while the 3rd Romulus sword which had been trailing came up and engaged Jochi. Sacrifice then sent his spears into the same gap, and one broke through and chased a unit all the way to the back of the map. With the Sacrifice spears gone into the gap, CBR swept in behind Agustus' 6 Byz inf. At that moment Jochi's line routed, and the Byz inf were able to turn and fight the CBR cav. This did stop Agustus from pursuing Jochi and running him off the map.

Meanwhile, Yuuki's line was holding as none of the units that Romulus and Sacrifice sent forward at his line were strong enough to break through. The SPQR cav flank was just held off by Yuuki bending his units around in a fish hook shape. Jochi was able to engage 2 of the spear units that Sacrifice had sent into the gap with swords that he had out to his right. Sacrifice did penetrate into Yuuki's back with an Alan Merc, but the SPQR line gave way at about the same time and a general rout of Romulus' forces began.

About this time, Agustus had annihilated CBR's 6 cav units and he turned to face a regrouped Jochi. He routed Jochi for a second time as some Yuuki units started to filter in on his left after finishing running Romulus off. Agustus turned his full force toward Yuuki and chain routed the disorganized Yuuki units, but again Jochi rallied and was harrassing Agustus at which point Augustus turned from pursuit of Yuuki to attack Jochi for the 3rd time. Jochi and Agustus engaged in a vicious double charge which allowed Yuuki to rally, but he was too far away to assist Jochi. Sacrifice arrived to this melee with the spear unit that had been at the back of the map, but coming in at a reverse angle it was itself being flanked by a Jochi unit. At this moment, a CBR cav and a Toda cav hit Agustus' right flank. Some unit in the SPQR group routed, and the entire group chain routed into the waiting net of Yuuki units that were closing in from behind and they were anihilated ending what was a very short but high intensity
battle.

SPQR had a very good plan of attack here, but the units they sent to break Yuuki's front were not strong enough to do it and their cav was not able to execute the rear attack needed on Yuuki's line units. One possible improvement for SPQR might be for Sacrifice to move his spears to Agustus' right flank to block out the CBR cav. If Agustus is free to run Jochi off the first time, I think SPQR woud stand better since Yuuki and Toda would be split and Augustus could possibly defeat them in detail. I can't help feeling that that dead pile of CBR cav was instrumental in the Takiyama win.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~
Apr 1, 2003



Clan Takiyama vs. SPQR (2nd) Bulgaria – 60k
-------------------------------------------

The Plan:

This is a brief analysis of the second SPQR v Takiyama battle. It was on Bulgaria at 60k, temperate, high era, summer season with Takiyama attacking. I don't have the colorful writing style that some do, but here's my take on the battle.

Takiyama's order of battle was to deploy two infantry/arb Byz armies (Dune and Yuuki) on the right flank, a cav heavy army (CBR) at center and a balanced army (Toda) on the left. The plan was to engage in a shootout on the right flank, either wining or at least drawing the shootout. This would be followed by an infantry assault by the two Byz armies on the right flank. CBR at center would look for an opportunity to make flanking attacks with his cav. Toda would hold his position with the threat of occupying the hill on the left in order to keep an SPQR army (Scipio) on the left, but he would occupy the hill if SPQR withdrew from the hill. The danger here is that a quick move to the right by Scipio at the right moment could leave Toda out of the battle.

What actually happened:

SPQR_Anthrax deployed in the left forward position facing mostly toward center leaving his left flank a bit too exposed. I ordered an immediate attack by Dune and myself on Anthrax discarding the shootout phase, and sending in what cavalry we had ahead of the infantry to disrupt as many pav arbs as possible. We succeeded in routing most of Anthrax off the right side of the map and turning back cavalry thrown in by Tiberius. Partly defensive deployment by me on the left side of this advance deterred a cavalry counterattack by Sacrifice. I then deployed my men facing about 45 degrees toward the left, but under heavy fire from Tiberius and remaining Anthrax pav arbs. When I looked behind me for Dune to my horror he was executing a withdrawal of his infantry to behind his arbs presumably to go into a shootout phase. I couldn't see relinquishing the high ground and the potential flank attack we had on Tiberius. I ordered Dune to come back and continue the advance. Seizing the initiative, Tiberius attacked with infantry units while my inf took heavy losses from the enemy's pav arbs. Dune did get back in time to rout Tiberius' infantry on the right, and my line held and repelled the rest of Tiberius' infantry attack just at the moment 4 of CRB's cav came charging up the hill to finish off the Tiberius infantry. Sacrifice then hit me with 2 spear units. CBR's cavalry about faced and charged back down behind them and they routed.

During this time Scipio had withdrawn all cav and inf from the hill on the left and sent them to the right to attack Dune and me. Toda engaged and destroyed Scipio's pav arbs, and then made a general advance but his slow moving infantry never did fully engage, but he did get his cav into the final melee. Scipio attacked me with cav and inf while Sacrifice went after CBR's 4 cav up at the back of the map near some buildings. I wasn't fully set, and Dune was regrouping to continue the advance on my right. Part of my line routed, but 4 of CBR's fresh unused cav hit Scipio from behind, and I was just able to stem Scipio's penetration into my lines with my general. Dune then came down on Scipio with a flanking move on his infantry while CBR's 4 last cav units and Toda cav came up behind Scipio's remaining infantry. CBR's original 4 cav at the top of the map were routed by Sacrifice and Anthrax units, but they had held long enough to protect Dune's right flank when Dune moved down on Scipio. After Scipio's rout, the rest was just cleanup of stragglers and weakened units.

This would have been a much harder battle for us if we hadn't gotten the jump on Anthrax at the beginning. While Dune thought it might be a sophisticated trap, I chalked it up to inexperience and ordered the attack. I believe SPQR made all the right counterattacks and moves after the initial mistake by Anthrax, but it's extremely hard to recover from the loss of practically a whole army right at the beginning. Hard fought by SPQR none the less.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~
Apr 5, 2003

[ElmarkOFear]

An old method of describing the area on the battlefield of which you are referring is to pretend the in-game minimap is overlayed with the numbers of a pushbutton phone.


1 2 3


4 5 6


7 8 9



Zone 1 is the attacking team's right flank player

Zone 2 is the attacking team's middle player

Zone 3 is the attacking team's left flank player

Zone 4 is the defending team's left/middle flank player

Zone 5 is the area in midfield

Zone 6 is the attacking team's left/middle flank player

Zone 7 is the defending team's left flank player

Zone 8 is the defending team's middle player

Zone 9 is the defending team's right flank player

If you enlarge a map's in game minimap and take a screenshot, you can then place the above numbers on the minimap and use it to describe the battle. For example:

"At the start of the game, our middle player moved from zone 8 to the right side of zone 5 , while our left flank player moved from zone 7 to left side of zone 5."

Hope this helps some.