Swiss army WITHOUT the weapon upgrade?

[war_blah]

Ok, swiss army are great, but there are no iron deposit in the province means you can not get the +4 weapon upgrade for it. Without the weapon upgrade, a +4armor swiss pikemen is not much better compare to a +4weapon +4armor regular pikemen unit(especial if it's build in Cyrolia with the +1 Valour bonus). And SwissHalbardiers will get cut to pieces by regular Halbardiers(more attack + more defense).

Same problems with most of the region limited units.(highlanders, Gallowglass) Great unit but No-Weapon upgrade really hurt them alot in the later period.

Also, since highlander only requires a fort to be build, there seems no way to give them the +1 valour bonus from a master building.(I think gallowglass get those because they require a swordsmith) So pretty much highlander stuck with the region bonus only?

[Mouzafphaerre]

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You can mod the game easily with the Gnome editor enabling iron provinces to train the said units, or giving the mentioned provinces iron.

I remember having great time with my clansmen in my English campaign, though.
_

[WorkNeglecter]

This is a sore point for me, too, especially for desert troops like bedouin camels. If they could get a weapon upgrade they could really do some serious damage in melee.
There's an "iron" cheat but it gives you iron in ALL your provinces. I'd mod iron into Syria, it's not entirely anti-historical.

[Daveybaby]

Me just wishes it was possible to upgrade units at locations other than where they can already be built.

That way you could diversify the roles of your provinces - have dedicated armoury centres, metalsmith centres, religious centres etc - instead of the boring - build EVERY building in this province.

Me wonders if judicious use of a hex editor and h4x0r tools would be able to bodge this functionality into the game... its probably only one branch at the end of the day...

Getting the AI to take advantage of it would be another matter though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif

[Kristaps]

the AI rarely upgrades its troops beyond +1 weapon even if it has iron provinces (never seen a +4 weapon pikemen unit built by AI yet). so, with superior tactics, a human player can still roll over any AI troops thrown at it even without the +4 weapon upgrade :)

gallowglasses and highland clansmen are supposed to be outclassed in the later eras. thus, i feel there is no need for them to have the +4 weapon upgrade either :) the same applies to camel warriors which historically were not technologically the most advanced troop types :)

[mfberg]

Quote[/b] (Kristaps @ April 29 2004,11:02)]the same applies to camel warriors which historically were not technologically the most advanced troop types :)

Except of course the small cannon mounted on the camel's saddle sometime in Late. (But then a mobile gun force would really be overpowering.)

mfberg

[son of spam]

If I remeber correctly, Medmod gives the provs where unique units are built iron.

[Oaty]

Quote[/b] (son of spam @ April 29 2004,21:01)]If I remeber correctly, Medmod gives the provs where unique units are built iron.
I believe his idea was giving each faction an iron rich province so that they'd have a little better chance against the humans plus the muslims would be completey sol with the homeland rules thus allowing all factions to have troops with a wepon upgrade

[squippy]

Quote[/b] (Daveybaby @ April 29 2004,08:43)]That way you could diversify the roles of your provinces - have dedicated armoury centres, metalsmith centres, religious centres etc - instead of the boring - build EVERY building in this province.
I NEVER build every building in every province - its wasteful. I run a coupole of main troop producing centres, especially on iron-bearing lands if available. All other provinces without specific local units would just be dedicated to diplomatic units or naval units or similar. If they have local units, they build to those and any suitable improvements (morale etc). The only exception is missile troops, which are cheap, and hence I'll have a number of provinces that produce missiles with armour and morale bonus buildings.

[Daveybaby]

I didnt mean in every province - i meant you have to build pretty much every building in your few troop producing provinces if you want the best units.

So in every game you end up with a couple of provinces which are developed to the max, while every other province just has the minimum (usually somewhere to retreat to, plus hapiness and moneymaking buildings). As long as you dont lose your 2 or 3 key provinces you are safe.

If it was possible to retrain anywhere, then you would tend to spread the load out a bit - have a few of your iron provinces as metalsmith centres for weapon upgrades - have a few others as religious centres for morale upgrades - a few centres for banging out standard troops to be upgraded later, and here and there have the buildings required to produce special units such as SAP.

This way more of your provinces would actually be important contributors to your war machine (and thus you would be more worried about losing them to an attack), instead of just cash cows.


Hmmmm... any good hackers/crackers out there fancy trying to NOP out the 'can you build this unit here?' check when retraining?

[Brutal DLX]

Well, everyhting comes at a price, if you like Swiss units but think they fare badly against upgraded normal troops, well, then either use those normal troops too or stick with your Swiss armies and devise ways to not lose so badly against normal upgraded troops.
I think SAPs even without the armour upgrade are the best unit in the game, you just can't use them in a steamroller type of way. In SP, generals and unit valour are much more important than weapon upgrades, and the +1 valour you will have on your Swiss from the get-go is not to be underestimated.

Of course, you could always mod your game, as others already mentioned.