hellenic Question

[DeadRunner]

I have a chat with a friend i i know that Sparta wins Athena ,but i dont reminber when sparta fall the Athenas army was in the Cities union that destroy Sparta ???

[Rosacrux]

Errr.... what? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Boulis]

Hi Deadrunner,

The conflict between the Greek city-states in the fifth and fourth centuries B.C. can be confusing. Both of your points are technically correct. As you obviously know, Sparta did win the Peloponnesian War (c.435-404 B.C.) against Athens. Unfortunately for Sparta, the war had exhausted, financially and materially, both the winners and the losers. Also, the war had begun because many city-states resented Athenian domination and joined with Sparta because Sparta promised to free them from Athenian imperial control. But once the Spartans won, they turned out to be just as bad (if not in some cases worse) than the Athenians.

In Athens, Sparta set up a very unpopular pro-Spartan government that was quickly overthrown and replaced by an independent Athenian government. Soon, the Spartans, through mismangement and arrogance, got involved in conflicts with many Greek city-states, most important among these being Thebes, a city that had become very powerful after the end of the Peloponnesian War. The Theban army was, at the time, also led by two brilliant generals and civic leaders, Epaminondas and Pelopidas. Eventually, the new independent Athenian government allied itself with Thebes against the common Spartan foe. After a series of conflicts, the Spartan army was decisively defeated by the Thebans (still in an alliance with Athens) at Leuctra in 371 B.C. Sparta was humiliated, its slave population (the helots) were freed by the Thebans and the former helots were even encouraged by the Thebans to form their own city. Essentially, Spartan power was broken forever. The two big winners were Athens and Thebes but then they started fighting each other...

For various reasons, but mostly becuase of continous warfare, neither Thebes or Athens had the ability to unite Greece after that, thus paving the way for Philip II's Macedonian conquest of Greece which was completed in 338 B.C. at the Battle of Chaeronea where a combined Theban and Athenian army was crushed by Philip's Macedonians. I hope that this rather lengthy post answered your question.

[DeadRunner]

Thx Boulis to answer question http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif ,I like history a lot and unfortunately the Greece history is not my strong knowledge.

ok is a lengthy post but is very interesting one