Understanding Turkish mounted units

[Shamus]

I’ve never played as the Turks before, and so decided to try them out. I’ve come across something that has struck me as a bit odd. With the horse breeder building you can build Armenian cavalry. If you then upgrade that building to a master horse breeder, you can create Ottoman S’s. Yet, the Ottoman cavalry is weaker than the Armenian cavalry. Have I missed something here? I have to do more building upgrades to get a weaker unit???

As I said before, I have never played as the Turks, so maybe I am missing part of the bigger picture here. Could anyone explain this anomaly to me? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Armenian Heavy Cavalry can only be built in Armenia, Lesser Armenia or Rum. Ottoman Siphani can be built anywhere.

Didn't say it would make sense. That's just the way it is.

[mfberg]

Quote[/b] (Doug-Thompson @ April 30 2004,09:20)]Armenian Heavy Cavalry can only be built in Armenia, Lesser Armenia or Rum. Ottoman Siphani can be built anywhere.
And remember the valor added by producing in the right region. I build AHC in Armenia & Rum (upgrading Valor in Armenia), Ghulam Cav in Lesser Armenia, and Ottoman Sipahi in Edessa. Building 2 valor units is very nice.

mfberg

[solypsist]

eventually with time the Turks get better cav while the Armenian cav stays the same.

[son of spam]

Also, Ottoman S. are 100 florins cheaper even tho they cost more to support. Thus, it's a good idea to spam Ottoman S. near your front lines, where they'll get chewed up soon, whereas AHC can be used in a defensive army.

[katank]

don't expect stuff to make sense.

avar nobles are better than feudal knights and yet they have far lower build reqs.

armenian cav, avar nobles, and huscarles along with vikings are some of the best low req stuff around.

[Mablung]

Feudal Knights have ridiculous upkeep, same with porno cav. They have the highest (or near to) upkeep of all units (not per man). This isn't even reflected by stats. In the case of Feudals is it because knights weren't used as much in early?

[katank]

feudals, katanks, and khazar royals all cost 105.

pronoai cost 125

it's absolutely ridiculous in some of the upkeep costs.

[Mablung]

Hmm, well Katanks are fine if built in Constantinople with master horse breeder. That and the natural high valour of Byz princes makes them good value http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[katank]

yep, the superiority of katanks in melee and lower support as well as the silver armor more useful for other units make katanks my cav of choice as the byz altho others differ and prefer pronoiai.

[son of spam]

eh...everyone mentions "porno" cav...what is that...I've never seen any cav reading playboy yet.

[katank]

well, it's only ichi teaching his cav naughty things http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Mablung]

I must confess, 'twas Ichi that told me about how naughty pronoai are. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Oaty]

Can I say Lithuanian cavalry

Now your dilemma is'nt so bad

[katank]

lith cav? I do hope you are joking in that lith cav are just crazy for build reqs and aren't even that fast and combat stats aren't that impressive either.

you can build good heavy cav with less reqs

[Mablung]

Why even give the the dismount ability if the dismount into crap @ss archers

[katank]

well, archers actually survive better than cav in sieges due to horses being a larger target.

besides, archers are good for taking down the wall of a wooden fort.

[Mablung]

I 'spose so, but they could have atleast been given them half decent stats.

[katank]

well, it's hard in that vanilla archers have to stink since they are the bottom of the missile food chain.

if you want decent stat ones, you get the hybrids, mostly Turkish.

if the other factions can dismount into good hybrids, then they take out a major advantage of the Turks though 60 man is sstill better than 40 men.

[Oaty]

Quote[/b] (katank @ May 07 2004,21:05)]well, archers actually survive better than cav in sieges due to horses being a larger target.

besides, archers are good for taking down the wall of a wooden fort.
Actually archers go down quicker for me as if they stop to shoot wich makes them a sitting duck. As far as cavalry I march them quickly and they get to there target quick take em out fast and thus suffer less caualties. Sometimes I have to take cavalry in due to the fact I'd lose too many of my loser troops to have a standing army anymore. Losing 20 cavalry that charge in and get the job done can be much better than losing 300 or more vanilla spearman who can't get the jopb done and keep falling from the arrows while not taking out the enemy

[katank]

well, I use both actually.

I use 6+ archers to shoot down the wall quick and send in swordsmen and heavy cav to destroy the resistance.

light cav are better off as archers.

[son of spam]

You must only be sieging forts. I can't even target castle walls with archers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

In fact, I can't target castle walls with anything except siege engines. That sux. Everyone knows from AOK and AOM that a horde of swordsmen easily overwhelm fortified stone walls.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[son of spam]

Oh yeah, about lith cav stats. The two word cure is "get medmod" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[katank]

@ son of spam, I was only talking about wooden forts for archers as they bring em down faster than siege engines.

I usually play early and in vanilla VI, that means over half of the sieges I do are forts esp. since the AI chooses to build all upgrades instead of up a level.

fort, motte, and bailey still go down easily when my archers let loose and I just love the smoke trails form the arrows.

Swordsmen overwhelming walls are definitely not that realistic although walls as field fortifications would be cool.

LOL reminiscing about AOK Agincourt scenario in which I coverted a few villies and dropped walls to make the kngihts charge up hill and weave through the maze to get at my longbows.

pathetic pathing naturally made sure that none survived.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif