Hashishin

[BalkanTourist]

Hey, all Long time no posts from me. I got me a new pc and have been enjoying MTW to the fullest.
I started a new campaign with the Almohads. I decided that this time I am going to fight all battles (even the insignificant ones) myself and I am going to take notes. It does take forever but that guarantees me a lot of fun time. I've played the Almohads before and have achieved a TD but I didn't fight any of the battles. I get familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of the faction and learn how to use them. I spent a lot of time upgrading so that I got to build hashishins in 5 or 6 provinces. The problem is I really don't see any use of them. They hide in the open. Well, big deal, I say. They still seem to me like undersized unit of DAs that can fight a bit better. But really, why would anyone waste so much time and money for such an unit?
I'd also like to know what is everyone's favorite almohad unit? Mine is AUM.
Cheers

[Ranges]

Well, as a 12 man unit, they are intdeed undersized..I'm still considering modding that up to 40.. And making the build time 3-5 years... :P
But as they are right now.. Well, should they charge a general in the rear when he's engaged with your front line; he's going down.. :P

But indeed, their battlefield usefulness is less than say, a unit of saracen infantry..

Very specialized. Very vulnerable..

EDIT: they also seem to have their uses when defending a castle...

[Eastside Character]

I agree, the Hashishins are dispensable. And the Almo unit would be Faris. I just like cavalry archers a lot. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Regards,
EC

[Chimpyang]

I use them to draw out enemy troops in SP and sneaky flanking manouvers (defending and ataacking), this usually beats whatever the AI throws at me.

[katank]

cheesy hashishin tactic would be have only a general unit and 1 hashishin hold a province against overwhelming forces.

withdraw general as soon as battle starts, set hashinshin to hold, hold and turn off fire at will.

then run out the timer since the AI can't find your hashishin.

BTW, this is a really boring tactic.

They do have their uses.

I managed to pull off some good ambushes using them to take down enemy generals.

hold, hold and fire at will off is important as you want to maximize the element of surprise and you can only do this when on manual.

3 of those ganging up on the enemy general often takes him down really quick. after the main force passed by, my hashishins take down their general and then rear attack rest of their force = instant rout if low morale.

[Oaty]

Well in MTW there true value is hard to comprhend.


But go to the midllle east



and spend some



time with

them

Excuse me

but I


am



enjoying my



vacation


with

them


very


well



nd jst 2 thnk tht gtg stnd scrws yrmnd up wt wr ths lberals thnkng

[SnakeCharmer]

The way I see them is basically the same as Battlefield Ninja in Shogun Total War. They are only useful as assassins (which is historically what they were). Like mentioned above, hide them and wait for an opportunity to get them close to the enemy general. Although these units have high fighting stats, 12 men in a unit (same for BFN) is just not enough to hang with 40 man units. An interesting this to note tho is that because of the units small size, they will gain valour/honor much quicker in battle than regular sized units if they manage to stay alive. So if in SP, it might be a decent strategy to use them against weak melee units such as archers, or to attack badly damaged or routing units just to give them some easy kills and boost their valour/honor for another battle.

Tips that Shcazzacazz gave for BFN (could probably be applied to Hashishin as well):

1) Only ever use them in a wooded map if you ever hope to hide them. (might be hard in desert hehe)

2) Choose good covering weather (rain, the heavier the better)

3) When you have to leave the trees at any point and still need cover, run your ninja to their destination in low visibilty conditions only. If the weather tends to change from low to normal again, STOP your ninja from moving and wait for weather to change again.

Hope this is a help

[Krakra]

Czar Ivan Asen II, hey, this can only come from a Bulgarian :-) Incidentally, so am I.

Hashishin shouldn't be messed with if you have the battle advantage (in numbers or in quality). But if you are facing an overwhelming force or a high-star general (the kind of guy that kills 50 of your men and manages to still escape the map alive), then those guys can help you get an advantage.

I personally have never managed to get the best use of them. They either get discovered or in the midst of the battle (I rarely pause) I forget about them althogether.

[BalkanTourist]

I was gonna say the same thing about you. Krakra is an old Protobulgarian name. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Thank y'all for the replies. I got some ideas and some I already knew. Overall that unit is overated, considering the cost for building it and the building requirements. Too bad because I was looking for a uber Almohad unit. AUMs are alright but rather boring. I've yet to experience Faris. Oh, well I rock Western Europe so far spreading Islam to the Brittish isles. It's so fun using advanced troops like my demi-culverins against early era troops. My faction is the most advanced one. I have gold armor upgrades in everyone of my core provinces plus Valencia. The only cruzader nations left are the Germans with one province and the Italians with 2. Surprisingly the Hungarians and Turks rule over the East. I don't think I'll have much trouble with them.
Keep in touch Krakra. I am glad I am not the only Bulgarian in this forum.

[Doug-Thompson]

I don't get much use out of them, frankly, but that's probably because of the way I play. I like a loose battle with lots of horse archers. Hashishin seem to need a set-piece ambush to really work.