Little John 2/Puzz3D Morale Effects

[FasT]

I keep seein many threads on moral etc.
I not fully understand it all yet,and think i never will.
So could we have a run down and all questions ask in 1 thread?This way i dont have to keep hoppin about,from thread to thread on moral for this and that.
Okay i have major question,we all know guns have big moral effect in battle?
How much does it lower moral of a unit been shot?
Does how close a gun effect moral of enemy more,we know it kills more at close range.
But what is difference from long range to close on moral?
Many more question and im sure others have to so lets hear them.

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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/markuk/t.gif/Fast.gif
Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)
FastCub

[FasT]

Sorry it was LongJohn my mistake http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

[MagyarKhans Cham]

Lol cub, thats rude :o)

[Kraellin]

"I keep seein many threads on moral etc.
I not fully understand it all yet,and think i never will.
So could we have a run down and all questions ask in 1 thread?This way i dont have to keep hoppin about,from thread to thread on moral for this and that."

yet, you start another thread.

K.



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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[FasT]

My mistake feel bad about it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Sorry LongJohn, no offense ment http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/redface.gif

[Puzz3D]

Fast,

Look in the "morale penalties" thread here and go to Tootee's Shogun Academy site there:
http://shogun-academy.tripod.com/

That's it. There's nothing else known. I see no evidence that suggestes there is a negative morale effect from guns other than the kills they inflict.

MizuYuuki ~~~

[FasT]

ok im off for a look now http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

LOL!, sorry but I can't contain the laugh http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/redface.gif)

Aye on tootee's site there is a nice explanation. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[longjohn2]

There is a minus for being shot at by guns, I think its about -4, though I'm not certain. This is in addition for penalty for the big gob of casualties that guns do all at once.

Cassualties affect morale in three ways. Firstly the overall casualties affect morale, secondly, suffereing a number of cassulties in any one animation frame, such as from a gun volley, inflicts a big but temporary penalty, and thirdly the number of cassualties suffered and caused over the last few seconds is a major component in deciding who is winning or losing a melee. Winning and losing in melee and causes bonuses and penalties.

[Khan7]

I've also noticed that units fight much more effectively when they feel secure. Kind of makes that whole "he who wishes to save his life shall lose it, he who cares not for his life shall keep it" or whatever that quote from Sun Tzu and a lot of other literature is.

Matt

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Shogun 2 has arrived! Check it out here (http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000398.html).

[Puzz3D]

That'll teach me to say something before I've thoroughly tested it. That's very interesting info longjohn has posted about morale penalties and casualties. It's obviously a complex effect. When you consider that the casualties have a big random component as well, you can see how difficult if not impossible it is to unravel the whole thing by conducting tests. If you watch two closely matched units fight, you can observe their morale jump up and down especially once there are only a few men left. I've seen morale go from steady to wavering and back up to steady during the fighting. I didn't fully understand this before longjohn's explanation here.

MizuYuuki ~~~

[FasT]

Thnxs LongJohn 2 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Always nice to know we feed PuZZ with more stas and figures.
-4 eh then flank a unit been shot at.no wonder they run with all these penalties.
Very complex and cleaver system.
Im sure PuZZ will get his head straight into MTW http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[tootee]

I've seen the gun effect on morale on SP tests and thought it's related to higher rate of kill inflicting higher morale penalty, but the additional -4 morale penalty on an unit targeted by a gun is new (and impt piece of info).

Anyway Shogun Academy has been updated with the latest info on morale.

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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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[This message has been edited by tootee (edited 05-15-2002).]

[Puzz3D]

I just checked the magnitude of the morale effect from guns with a tricky test where you set the power to zero so there are no casualties inflicted. The negative morale effect I measure is -6 points in a unit that is being targetted by musk or arq. I'm very confident of that figure, and 6 points would have to be classified as a large effect. I also measured a -2 point effect for a unit being targetted by archers. The -4 longjohn remembers for guns may be the additional penalty they have over archers. One other thing I did was target a unit with 2 archers and I saw no increase in the morale penalty over being targetted by a single archer. I didn't try two guns, one gun and one archer or ranged units with less than 60 men. It's possible that a single man with a gun can produce the minus 6 morale effect in the target unit.

MizuYuuki ~~~

[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 05-19-2002).]

[Khan7]

Well if The Seven Samurai is any indication, that might be somewhat accurate (lone gunman)..

Matt

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Shogun 2 has arrived! Check it out here (http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000398.html).

[Papewaio]

Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
It's possible that a single man with a gun can produce the minus 6 morale effect in the target unit.

MizuYuuki ~~~

[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 05-19-2002).][/QUOTE]

Should be scaled. But even against a lone gunmen, you can believe someone would be thinking 'Oh shit he's aiming at me'.