Does king's acumen affect province income?

[RedKnight]

I'm doing some math to figure out how trade income works. So far I've got a handle on the variables: type of trade good, level of trade building, governor acumen, tax level, and viable provinces to sell to (i.e., viable sea trade routes, no war blockades, target province has port and doesn't trade same item, etc.). These are the only things I have found so far that affect trade income, but I've been mainly using one saved game.

What else might affect trade income? For example, because I've only used one savegame, I won't be able to see if e.g. the king's acumen affects overall income (since of course the king didn't change, for this one saved game).

If it helps explain what I'm trying to do, I'd like to be able to take any particular savegame and say precisely what the trade income is for a particular Province. (Note: To keep it simple, I'm not interested in income from *other* country's trade (to me) for now.)

To keep confusion to a minimum, I'd appreciate it if you only responded if you have actually tested stuff in the game (or know of someone else who did). In other words, don't speculate and say it seemed to me like.... There are so many interacting variables that hard data is needed; speculation would only make for a winding thread that didn't say much. Yer kindly editor thanks you. :)

TIA -- Mike

[katank]

look in the economy panel.

click on province and you can see trade break down.

other factors include the gov and king's acumen and V&V's.

trader V&Vs come from building mines. they give +10, +20, +30% trade income respectively.

this can be farmed by building and deleting basic mines in a poor province again and again to get it for a king.

it can be very worthwhile.

for every feather of the king, you get +2% income I believe while it's +10% for the gov.

[RedKnight]

Thanks for the post... I knew about the rest except for:

for every feather of the king, you get +2% income I believe while it's +10% for the gov.

Can somebody else verify the 2% for king? Katank doesn't sound totally sure. Has anybody tested it directly themself? I have verifiedy the 10% for governors.

Also, does distance to king or governor matter? (Does it affect income, if they're in the province in question? What if the Ireland syndrome happens to the king or governor?)

As an aside, re: farming the trader v&v-- if I'm going to continually tear down a mine in a Province, can I stack a whole bunch of governors & king & princes in that one province, and they'll all get trader bonusses? And, how does the trader v&v for the king affect the economy... if his acumen feathers are 2% (vs. governor 10%), then does he really give 10% to ALL province's trade if he has the 10% trader v&v, or just 2%? Finally, is there any way to increase the acumen of kings or governors?

Thanks dude http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Shamus]

Quote[/b] (RedKnight @ May 06 2004,13:05)]Thanks for the post... I knew about the rest except for:

for every feather of the king, you get +2% income I believe while it's +10% for the gov.

Can somebody else verify the 2% for king? Katank doesn't sound totally sure. Has anybody tested it directly themself? I have verifiedy the 10% for governors.

Also, does distance to king or governor matter? (Does it affect income, if they're in the province in question? What if the Ireland syndrome happens to the king or governor?)

As an aside, re: farming the trader v&v-- if I'm going to continually tear down a mine in a Province, can I stack a whole bunch of governors & king & princes in that one province, and they'll all get trader bonusses? And, how does the trader v&v for the king affect the economy... if his acumen feathers are 2% (vs. governor 10%), then does he really give 10% to ALL province's trade if he has the 10% trader v&v, or just 2%? Finally, is there any way to increase the acumen of kings or governors?

Thanks dude http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
Accouting: Total War http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Chimpyang]

the spreadsheet's invasion

[Tricky Lady]

Quote[/b] (RedKnight @ May 06 2004,20:05)]Katank doesn't sound totally sure.
Errr... RedKnight, Katank is one of the patrons that posted some of the most usefull and helpfull ...errr... posts these last months. If *he* doesn't know for sure, I would not know who does... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I don't, as I don't have enough insight in the game (yet).

BTW, you posted a very funny reply. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif

[octavian]

Quote[/b] (RedKnight @ May 06 2004,14:05)]Thanks for the post... I knew about the rest except for:

for every feather of the king, you get +2% income I believe while it's +10% for the gov.

Can somebody else verify the 2% for king? Katank doesn't sound totally sure.
do not insult the all knowing katank, he has only been a member 5 days longer than me, and he already has a custom avatar sheese katank, when you go over 10 posts a day, you know you have issues http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[nick_maxell]

I had a look around the forums and most posters agree with 2% per king accumen and 5% per gov accumen for MTW - don t know if that changed in VI

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

nick

[katank]

@octavian, so true. my life is sad. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif going to break 11 one of these days...

for trader vice, it only applies to the king and the gov of that province. Also, if the princes are in that province, they pick up the vice too.

stacking other govs there doesn't work.

As for 2%, I remember reading it from someone else but never personally verified it.

therefore, I can't be completely sure. Have you checked MTW Economics 101 thread etc.?

[katank]

@ nick, 5% per gov acumen? are you sure it isn't 10%?

@octavian, I just went over 11 a day. Me so sad. Me have many issues http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Here's a suggestion: Start up a game and track the trade from one province to one other specific province. Don't appoint a governor to your province. Ireland, for instance, might make a good, isolated province that won't cost too much income.

That should eliminate the many volatile variables. Then note the difference whenever there's a change in ruler acumen.

[RedKnight]

Katank, the Economics 101 thread has tons of good stuff in it - thanks for the ref. Anybody else wants it, it's here (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=16077;st=0). It has some real nuts and bolts that I've been looking for - even starting datapoints. My test data agrees with what is said there.

Tricky Lady and octavian, I wasn't picking on him, just asking... I even bought him a beer. Wine for the lady though, eh? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif

[nick_maxell]

katank,

you are right with the 10% - I did some testing in MTW but it seems rounded down all the time (eg 22.8 is 22 increase and so on) - for the 2% king - could not find anything about it and don t have the time to test it myself.
I m surprised that froggy does not cover it in her guide though - the econimics section does not cover accumen effects of a gov.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif - I owe you one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

nick

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (RedKnight @ May 06 2004,20:05)]Also, does distance to king or governor matter? (Does it affect income, if they're in the province in question? What if the Ireland syndrome happens to the king or governor?)
For income: no. But it the king is far away or isolated, then loyalty will drop. I have read that this drop is actually the bonus of the king's influence falling away, but I have not seen any proof of that.
Distance to governor doesn't matter. There is a absentee landlord vice, but the appearance of this does not seem to be linked to the location of the landlord in question.


Quote[/b] ]As an aside, re: farming the trader v&v-- if I'm going to continually tear down a mine in a Province, can I stack a whole bunch of governors & king & princes in that one province, and they'll all get trader bonusses?
Some time ago someone posted a strategy for farming virtues. The one you describe is identical to the one he described for farming trader, so I guess it works.


Quote[/b] ]And, how does the trader v&v for the king affect the economy... if his acumen feathers are 2% (vs. governor 10%), then does he really give 10% to ALL province's trade if he has the 10% trader v&v, or just 2%?
The V&V list I have downloaded explicitly states that it is 10% for both Kings and governors. But I have forgotten to write down were I got that list from. IIRC it was from clan Shades.


Quote[/b] ]Finally, is there any way to increase the acumen of kings or governors?
In the first place: titles.
Secondly, if you set high taxes, you might get the greed vice, which gives extra acumen, but decreases happiness.
Acumen is rather hard to come by, I am afraid.

[Peredhil]

Sometimes you get lucky and end up with a few generals who are born with high acumen. But yes, it is much harder to cultivate. Byzantine princes have excellent acumen. It's a shame you can't give them titles really.
Some factions, on the other hand, have generals that are just plain stupid. I suppose its in the genes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif.

[Accounting Troll]

After doing some experimenting, I found that farming income went up by between 1.6% and 1.8% in each one of my provinces when my 4 acumen king died and he was replaced by a 5 acumen king on Expert level. The difference in range is due to the rounding used by the game.

The only way I've found to cultivate the Royal acumen is to ensure that a king is succeeeded by a high command/acumen son, preferably one with the hard sums virtue. The chinless wonders and prideful princes get to fight a 6,000 strong rebel army in Pomerania single handed.

[katank]

yep, elective pruning of the royal is ideal.

I prefer to send the prince in wedge mode to charge into spears and let rebel rear attack him and capture him if he routs, not ransoming of course.

another sure way to kill him is to have rebels siege him to death in a fort or something.

newly taken territory, leave him alone in there. withdraw into castle and let him get sieged to death.

[Defensor Pacis]

The 'Economics 101' thread is one of the most informative I've read on this board.

I assume that loyalty and happiness don't contribute to income however?

[katank]

well, if you have high loyalty/happiness, the people will take higher taxes without rebelling.

I love highest tax always and my people are still 200% loyal http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[RedKnight]

Quite so... thus, loyalty and happiness are only indirectly related - they let you jack up taxes, if you're so inclined. And aren't we so inclined, eh Katank? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif Dread is similar - it also keeps the rabble down. But only a little bit.

As I recently tacked onto the Econ 101 thread, peasants can be good for keeping happiness and loyalty high - 'police' troops only matter for being warm bodies, and peasants are the cheapest warm bodies around. I forgot to add in my Econ message, that an unforeseen benefit of having lots of peasants is that you will occasionally find a whopping great Acumen on a few of them... just a law of chance thing, but now that you have quite a few more chances, if you have a pile more units as peasants. A few more whopping great Acumens go a long way to cranking up income on your best provinces. In turn off non-critical messages in MTW/VI 2.01, and take a close look at anybody whose acumen went up 2 or more that turn, then set them in the castle/fort there, to find easily later (when I have a new title to assign). Also I check any Lord's acumen (or income v&vs) that fell more than 1 acumen or 10% income. (It seems like most everybody gets at least a 1 acumen or 10% bad v&v sooner or later, so I don't bother with them.)

[katank]

well, it's affordable to crank them out and disband if low acumen.

else, garrison troops are good.

if playing VI, I suggest you look into celtic warriors who are 100 man unit that only costs 22 to support. even cheaper than peasants and far better in a scrap. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif