Anyone know exactly wht ' ELITE status ' gives ?

[ElementUK]

If Discipline enables a unit to be unaffected by loss of general or routing units ( unless Elite are routing ), what does Elite Staus give..or how does it affect a unit.

I always thought it was the Loss or Rout thing........Would greatly appreciate someones input here, thanks in advance.

Napoleonic Mod player....

[[DnC]]

I don't know the exact statistics, but with the elite status, units that are elite won't be bothered or less bothered (=smaller moral penalty) when non-elite friendly units start routing.

Just a FYI (=For Your Information). If you want to make (a) certain unit(s) "elite", then open up the unitprodfile with Gnome-Editor and go somewhat to the right untill you see "SAMURAI( NO )". "NO" means they aren't elite and "YES" means they are. So change the "NO" to "YES" if you want them to be elite units.

[ElementUK]

I know about the Samurai column....and the not routing or losing Morale is dealt with by wether or not the unit is Disciplined...not Elite...

I tried it out and in-game when hovering the Mouse over a unit...Even though the Unit is not Elite they still get these bonus's as long as there Disciplined..so it's not that....Cheers anyway.

[[DnC]]

Hmm I always believed that to be true. Then if it's not, then I don't know.

[Ypoknons]

Quote[/b] (ElementUK @ May 06 2004,21:08)]I know about the Samurai column....and the not routing or losing Morale is dealt with by wether or not the unit is Disciplined...not Elite...

I tried it out and in-game when hovering the Mouse over a unit...Even though the Unit is not Elite they still get these bonus's as long as there Disciplined..so it's not that....Cheers anyway.
I think it's that Elite units won't be affected by the rout of disciplined and normal units. Desciplined are still affected by the rout of other disciplined units. I think.

[ElementUK]

Ok, now I have it..... Neither Elite or Disciplined gives Morale or Valour / Honour.

ELITE STATUS = Ignore Routers who are not Elite.

DISCIPLINED = Ignore Routers who are not Disciplined OR Elite AND ' Not Panicked by Death of General '.

So the question now arises when modding units is...Which units should be Just Elite, which should be Disciplined and then which should be the ultimate BOTH Elite and Disciplined.

BUT...ELITE Troops WILL lose Morale when ONLY ELITE Troops are Routed and the General Routs or is Killed BUT DISCIPLINED Troops will lose Morale when either ELITE or DISCIPLINED troops are Routed BUT not the General dying

So it's a double edged sword.

ADDITIONAL NOTE: Surely ELITE STATUS should be better than just being Disciplined ( which it IS when you take into account the amount of troops they have to worry about routing ) Something seems Strange .... I mean, surely the Elite Troops should also not have to worry about the General dying ?

At the moment, The Elite Troops dont worry anything but the Elite Troops Routing and the General being Routed or dying.
However, the Disciplined Troops have to worry about the Elite AND the Disciplined Troops routing BUT their unaffected by the General's Death

So the conclusion is this: The bonus's are better for ELITE troops than the Disciplined ones except for the General dying .....BUT the Negatives are surely screwed up because the Disciplined Troops SHOULD worry about the General dying surely

So it at 1st, 2nd 3rd and even 4th studying's lol, It really does seem as if the Bonus of ' Not Panicked by Death of General ' bonus, is given to the wrong ' type '. IE: It should have been given to the Elite and not the Disciplined.

PS: The only explanation I can think of WHY the Elite's are affected by the Death of the General is that they actually ' CARE ' what happens to him

[Schrodinger's Cat]

I assume the reasoning is like this:

ELITE - Very good troops, so they just laugh it off when their inferior brethren rout, BUT their discipline is no better than normal so when the general dies they become dismayed and morale suffers.

DISCIPLINED - Well drilled, so they're less likely to rout. They do get dismayed when the general dies, but they're too well trained to let it effect them, BUT if they see elite troops routing, their morale suffers because they view the elite troops with awe. Hence they think "If they're routing, it's time to get scared."

Elite AND disciplined is obviously the best of both worlds; they are well drilled as well as being very good at fighting.

Just my humble opinion.

Schrodie's Cat

[ElementUK]

The big question is though.......Does an ELite and Disciplined unit, care or is effected by the General's Death or Routing ? IE: Is Elite Better than Disciplined ? I would think so because they are effected by less troop types routing. So does Elite overule Disciplined ?
Most likely the combination of both means they lose morale the same as Disciplined troops AND ARE effected by the Gen's rout or death.....I'll leave that hanging coz the answer eludes me.

[Schrodinger's Cat]

I don't think you can say that one is necessarily better than the other; they're subtly different.

As for being both, I suspect that their eliteness means that they aren't worried by routing disciplined troops, because they consider non-elite troops to be useless and simply don't care. Their discipline should stop them being affected by the death of the general. It isn't that elite troops care about the general and disciplined troops don't - they all care, but disciplined troops don't let it affect them.

Anyway, that's my hypothesis, now I'm going to test it.

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Tested it and found this about troops that are both elite and disciplined (test subject ghulam bodyguards).

They were worried by disciplined troops routing, as per disciplined troops.
They were not worried about the death of their general, as per disciplined troops.

In other words they act exactly like disciplined troops http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-speechless.gif , at least as far as I can tell.

I did test it by getting my general captured in two battles, and I didn't get the message about being dismayed by the death of the general. However, I did get the worried by routing friends message, when the routing troops were disciplined but not elite.

So it seems, unless I'm missing something, that adding elite status to disciplined troops does nothing, though there are plenty of troops in the game that are both.

Schrodie's Cat

[ElementUK]

Woh, now that is weird Well done on the test. I think that this then, must be a ' mistake ' in the Hardcoding. Surely it can not be a deliberate thing that Disciplined wipes out Eliteness http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif