The Best Player

[Vas]

There may not be a player who is unbeatable, but who's the best player for you?


P.S. I heard that there's an old vet who had beaten Kocmoc 4 in a row, and Magy 8 out of 10. Who's he? Rumor said that he is the best of both STW and MI.

[Tankdogg123]

it is only a rumour is was just panzer/monsta talking shit and trying to stir up controversy don't be fooled by this.

[theforce]

The chances of a good player beating a very good player are good like 20-30% l fink(depends on various factors like...luck, province, weather and even the state of mind of the player). I have played with kocmoc a lot but not recently, mainly in stw times. While good he wasn't so good but he might have improved. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
Tera is a very good player but he is modest. He might come later saying that l am wrong and... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
There are many more players that are very good.

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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!

There isn't a "best player" because it is impossible to identify. Each battle is so different. But there is the slot of the "elite" players, ie. the ones that consistently shown they play on very very high levels. There are only very few here...I would put Magy, Koc and AMP there. Apart from very skilled they're very experienced, playing from 2 years or so.

Just under the "elite" slot there is a HUGE group of very good players, above-average guys that aren't as good as the "elite" but are consistently excellent. I would put the best "MI newbies" here, and many many other folks: other wolves, rages, kenchis etc etc.

Tera.


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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[Jemasze Toda]

I have an answer to that question!

Me!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

To be honest...there may be some players here who might be able to beat me....LOL
but when i play at my very best...not too many! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Ahh how i love to behave like a child!
Can you see the fool's smile?

yours Jemasze

[Mithrandir]

and under the newbies there is a special class, complete losers, in which I would rank Dreadknight,Mithrandir and myself (I'm a bit of schizo.

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif I'm a medio/bad player, only ad 3 online games (still won 2 though, one because the time ran out b4 the fight started http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif ).
but I enjoy the game a lot and am willing to play&learn.

my online name=dreadknight,I got msn

elflands@hotmail.com

contact me for a game.

I live in Holland though (time difference)

-Greetz,
Mithrandir

[tootee]

At the start of the battle, everyone think he/she (gotta be politically correct here) is the best player. After the battle, the winner confirms that he/she is the best, while the loser thinks he/she is the best but plain unlucky...

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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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[BomilkarDate]

I think there is no best player. But there are some really great ones. There are great teams too, great cav gens,...., great campers http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
...It just depends.
For myself I can say that it really depends on my state of mind, even my mood. If I am tired I make mistakes, I am beaten by average players. If I am "feeling in the game" (nearly) everything works, on such days I beat good players. I think many guys are on the same level as I am, but the great ones do (nearly) never show such weak battles, even if they play "weak" they are strong.
So the greatest players (in my eyes) are those who can compensate their weaknesses, those who can change the course of a battle with a single move, those who do not have to adapt to new situations in battle, because they directed the battle to go this way.

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Strength and honour

[MagyarKhans Cham]

shouldnt be jokes in the off topic section?

if there was a player who beated our Great Khan 8 out of 10 then he must have 10 different names, playing high koku, fielding a lot of ashis and being the defender in all those games.

furthermore our Khan should have 10 logfiles of this player...

it should be commonly known that our Khan uses comp games as a warm up, fielding not the smartest army to face the ashis and chosing attacking difficult maps just for fun or to show the opponent that his doing aint fair in anyway.

so let this man step forward with 1 single name and lets see if my Khan can break the record he claims of being able to win 8 out of 10....
I ma sure some can beat our Khan more than 5 out of 10 on regulat basis, but sadly there are just a few (3 or so) people who can do this and they are known in the wolves den.

i think tera can check ip-adresses of this post http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

perhaps tank is right, monsta like to stir people a bit.

btw a question,
aint this vet SubudaiLives So, our Khans teacher? I know he pops in with unknown names and spread these rumours as well.
Subudai is dead, Hail Subuidai

[Mithrandir]

Quote Originally posted by tootee:
At the start of the battle, everyone think he/she (gotta be politically correct here) is the best player. After the battle, the winner confirms that he/she is the best, while the loser thinks he/she is the best but plain unlucky...

[/QUOTE]


Actually I always think..."well how am I going to be slaughtered this time", then when the battle is over "ah like that"

[theforce]

Mithrandir the key in the best psycology is not to think of deafeat BUT be too arrogant either.
I have started many games that l thought l would lost but the outcome was victory and the other way around.
I am able to beat ANYONE, defending a 89 degree slope http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!

[Dom]

LOL Vas, what kind of topic is this?

Good players, bad players, new players all is relative.

It is hard to agree what the best settings for the game are, let alone who is best at them.

Examples: high koku, low koku
flat map, hilly map
restrict camera on, off
4 max
5 honour max
super ashis
no super ashis

patch 1.01
patch 1.02
Original
Expansion

Now, some prefer low koku and no rules, but I do not like that. It imposes unrealistic requirements to keep an army in one group all the time.

I like hilly maps at 30k, when the games are much more flexible and require some genuine tactics and not simple flank-turntowards-rush. But that is just my opinion,

Besides, just talk anout the hardware different people use. For example Magy's Cav army cripples my pc when it charges, so it is very hard to order my troops around, with mouse frozen. I am on 15" Screen, while he is on 17"(or more). That influenes keeping track of things.

With new patch coming out, and hints from people involved, guns are going to be less powerful, and , I suppose Super ashi issue fixed, which means new players are going to be at disadvantage, having to learn all new tactics. You can effectively say that the patch has been balanced in favour of veteran players.

I don't mind facing any player on the battlefield and I can put up a good fight. More importanlty if I loose I can come up with many excuses, I just do not bother with it. Cuz whoever wins - wins and is the best for a time being.


Till the next challenge comes.

Regards, Ryurik

[RageMonsta]

Errrm why did Tank feel the need to mention Monsta?....I wont be baited..well not at this moment anyway.

There is no best....there are many good/great...but we all win and lose...Tera is about right in what he said...in some ways....but the factors and variables are so vast we cannot begin to add them up....koku/weather/map/attack/defend/stats/rules/stw/MI/mood/luck/connection/health..and the list goes on.....

A major factor is attitude....alot of the vets have above average ability but lack the lust to win....alot of newer 'good' players may have less skill and experience but have the lust.

I can say for example it is hard for me to take the game to the point where i really need to win....this doesnt mean it doesnt bother if I lose but....as with alot of the old timers..we would need to lose a thousand games before the score is even from our wins.

[NinjaKilla]

You make a good point when you talk about lust Monsta. From my view, I've just given up STW because I lost the passion and my competance was greatly affected. LOL Having said that, my lust for MI does seem to be paying off particularly slowly... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

As for best players... well I can only talk in STW terms and I ain't gonna inflate anyone's egos http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif, but I would say that in general that you can often be surprised by someone without a reputation (particularly with alternative names).

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)

[Kocmoc]

hehe,

yes i got beaten 4 times in a row from tank
but who remember the games i won in a row vs a player?

i agree with some guys here, u cant say "who is the best" and btw, this question was asked many times....

i personal can say "who is real good", and this i can count on 1 hand...

the setups and maps wich are used at the moment are easy to control the most average player can win vs a so called "vet"...

but change the map, lower the koku, make a max of 2 and the most average player will lose badly...

its just to easy to control 7 shooters on iron board...

example 1:
do this.... 2v2 and in every game, 1 control all cav and the other all infantry...
this is in my eyes the high level of controlling and teamplay

example 2: just check who won more games all together, u or the other player...

we all lose, thats clear but look at an average of 100 or 500 or 1000 games and check wich player u played, if u attacked wich maps u attacked and so on...

and ofcourse its a question of constance...
..to bring the same level of playing all the time... thats very difficult....
u shouldnt have a bad or good day, u should bring always the same very high skill...


and at the end, if i play a game with a weaker army and i got beat, the opponents says "hey i beat him...."... the point is, its boring to bring always the "strongest setup"...

and to vas, i remember as u said, "next month im the best"....lol, thats 4 months away... u still not the best http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

...i love to play with my twin, thats always a pleasure and the best teamplay i ever saw...

koc

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Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)

[Kocmoc]

hey ninja i remeber this "girlpower"... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif



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Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)

[theforce]

Using many names at the same time is bad l fink http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
It all comes down to experience. As Sun Tzu said...know your enemy. If your enemy is predictable(some times u get kicked anyway) by hyper ashis.
There is also a sort of players that are very good in some sorts of games are avg in others. Like jstfeared for example.(I miss him http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif )
He was an avg player in 1v1 but he was very tricky in 2v2 and 3v3 games.

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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!

I agree with some of what Koc said...

Controlling 7 missiles, some infantry and cavalry at flank on ironing board and having 150 honour doesn't make you a "best" player.

The best player is he who can win with ANY army in ANY situation on ANY map and with ANY koku. Of course, HE is utopicial and can't exist. But there are some who can reach similar levels.

The many on MI who play 10k ironing board with 140+ honour don't really have a knowledge of what the true skill is...the skill that defeats an enemy before melee begins...that skill that will first confuse you with CA and fast movement, puts you in a difficult situation and defeat you with any army he has.

This is one of the few moments I miss Totomi ...at least it is a map capable of transmitting true skill...a flat map with NOTHING is not a place to show how to merely play Shogun...



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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[ElmarkOFear]

Everyone knows Elmo is the best!! His general has the Shogun Nike contract! Nobody can run from the field of battle like Elmo. My opponents have made a new game of their own when playijng against me . . . . they make bets on who will be able to catch my general first. Winner gets to keep my jug o' Shine!

[Rath]

Amp, Mag and Koc are clearly the 3 best. Then maybe 10-20 or so are just behind them.

[Vas]

Quote Originally posted by Kocmoc:
hehe,

yes i got beaten 4 times in a row from tank
but who remember the games i won in a row vs a player?

and to vas, i remember as u said, "next month im the best"....lol, thats 4 months away... u still not the best http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

...i love to play with my twin, thats always a pleasure and the best teamplay i ever saw...

koc

[/QUOTE]


1. Tank is the man!
2. Vas is a new name. You must be using an undercover name to spy what the undercover Vas said. Tell me which name you were using so that I could check whether you mistaken me with another..hmm..vasaline?
3. The best gameplay for me is with Ryurik! We are the Great Rata!


Quote Originally posted by Terazawa Tokugawa:


The best player is he who can win with ANY army in ANY situation on ANY map and with ANY koku. Of course, HE is utopicial and can't exist. But there are some who can reach similar levels.


[/QUOTE]

Perhaps, the best player in terms of skill is the one that has the highest skill rating.

If we can quantitize our skill, and then we go on to denote one player a rating of 5.1, the other 5.9.

Yet if we can also quantitize the advantage of the enviornment to be in relation to skill rating, and we denote the net effect giving a -1.2 attacker advantage and 0.5 defender advantage for players in the range between 5 and 7.

Then assuming both player are playing their best, while the weather has neglectible effect, the defender will win the game.

But we'll notice when the 5.9 plays as attacker, it is a closer game.

That is how I consider the best player, and thus he does not have to win every game.

Of course, the skill rating of the players can only be compared if the skill components are more or less the same. Which means a cavalry master can usually beat a cavalry junior, but not as much as he can beat a gun junior. Then again, there's yet many sub-factors in cavalry control, and there may be infinite ones, thus we may only compare the accurate skill rating in a relative approach...

Even it is not accurate, it can be a rough estimation for who the best player is.

But that's for skill only, the best player in terms of fun is the one who is a mutual rival, and the one who I can cooperate with.


Now, some may think this is an old topic, but actually its main purpose is to find out who that panzer was talking about. But now since Magy said there are 3 who can beat him in more than half of the games, I'd like to know who they are.

[This message has been edited by Vas (edited 05-22-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Vas (edited 05-22-2002).]

[RageMonsta]

why doesnt everybody make this simple.. if the best are judge by opinion.. for eample most players experience of meeting these 'masters'...the answer to the question is simple...goto the HABA award site.

But also keep in mind that democracy is not always the best way to judge anything. for example-

The vote for government- if you look at the British publics majority opinion then think of this...the SUN newspaper is the most popular news paper on sale!!! (complete rubbish for those who dont know).

world peace or mega riches?......when asked most people would take the riches...no dont bull shit me..you know its true...take the Gates style cash and then give some to a charity...you know you would.

Majority of the western world thinks that we live in a free society and our governments actually make war against the likes of Iraq (to date around 5 - 10 million people have died through sanctions) to save poor little arabian people and not oil....errrmmm did we react the same to Bosnia where a plan of genocide was being implemented?

Both Joseph Stalin (estimated 10-20 million victims..not including the war) and Adolf Hitler (estimated 10-20 million victims not including the war) were both given the Time magazine man of the year awards during the 1930s!

So the HABA can give an answer....because the choice of who is what is often best explained through majority opinion but can we always trust that opinion? America vs Vietnam in a war....my money would have been on the mighty stars and stripes....and most other peoples.....but it didnt happen that way did it.

Not sure about who is best? well get out there and play and make yourself the best and then the arguement is solved.....or is it?

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

What is best when it is only striving to rise above others. This leads to anger which in turn leads to remorse which in turn leads to suffering.

Competing is for people who have no desire to make friends. Joining in a friendly fight is for people who have a desire to make friends.

If you are the best then you are shunned by other players because they envy your position.

Afterall I would know this as I am the best http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif



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He is the Messiah
No i'm not the Messiah
Only the true Messiah would deny it.
Alright then I am the Messiah.
HE IS THE MESSIAH HOORAY!!!

[MagyarKhans Cham]

Vas gave me a good idea about on how to determine who is a very good player

its the one who my Great Khan feels a pleasure to play with in multies, and enables to let him watch television and dont deliver him to much headaches with uncontrolled actions.

using this criteria we can list: KocMoc, Spoon, Swoosh, and Amp (when he aint bored). and with many others he didnt played to much to categorize them in here as well.

I personally have more respect for good players willingly to learn the game of tactics and playing all sorts of map, attacker or defender than the group of 10k ironing players fielding a well fit army and doing their trick once more.

This reminds me of an other thing i found in the Khans Diary texts. That good players can make their troops/army actually dance on the battlefield. Amongst the wolves this is considered the highest level of battling.

Another thing some undercover player said to my Khan several times when joining the multi on his side, "u made things look easy". within that compliment shelters another thing that could be used as criteria.

Sadly with some vets under cover its hard to keep track on their individual skill and how they develope and being able to let them being part of "the one hand" list.

Then there is also a group of average players that once in a while have miraculous moments.

So with a small group of best players, we have a much larger group of "above average" players. Not everyone can belong to the list of Best Players, but we all can be part of the list of Most Nice and Honourable Players.
Let we all work on that one as well....

Allleluja

[Jemasze Toda]

Hehe Monsta, nice post!

So are we able to find an answer to our seemingly sooo simple question:
Who is the best player?
If it isn't me http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif what criteria do we have for that high honour?
Many esteemed warriors spoke fair and true words in our council and their wisdom shall be praised!
All agreed more or less that it is very difficult to announce a certain player as the best of the best, but that we still do (and have to!) measure, jugde and weight everything in our life INCLUDING (hehe) our small question.
But is this question so small and unimportant? Isn't it really of no or small interest to know who is the best and the most important person (mip LOL) in a certain social group, even if it is only a tiny community as ours?
This wonderful game, the online-battles AND the forum-arguements could be seen as a kind of childrens (or adults who refuse to rob themself completly of child within us)-training-camp for real-life! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
And in life there is only ONE force at work:

Life is will to power, and nothing else.
(For the german-speaking in case my translation is horrible:
Leben ist Wille zur Macht, und nichts außerdem!)

Love, hate, war, peace, morale - especially where it divides and jugdes! between good and evil, all these and many more crucial aspects of life are just a sign of how strong the will of an individual or a society is NOT only to survive but to develop and prosper and...change!! ( to the better hopefully but you never know...hehe)

Life is will to power ( Wille zur Macht)

So whoever can create himself within our little community as a very important person may practice a bit for real-life...and you know what? The rest, the less important persons may learn a bit too LOL.
In here you also have to cope with "enemies" and their attacks, on the battlefield but with much more impact in the forum! A battle can be watched by a few players only ( If its no 1v1, then only by the protagonists) but here in our nice political meeting-hall, the senat! of the Shogun-players-Elite, all can follow and take part in the verbal clashes.... oh i forgot, we have some peasants as well standing at the bronze-door and watching in awe the conscript fathers inside the ancient building discussing deep matters or they yell from time to time foolish comments and fish-womens wisdoms into the room http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Life is will to power and nothing else and it might be wise to find the ones with a strong will and educate them. A little praise from time to time may help to let their self-believe grow but it is as necessary to hit them hard once in a while so that they have to FIGHT their way!
Whatever does not kill you, makes you stronger.....
Damn i have seen StarWars lately...although the movie itself is only slightly above average, i love the concept of the force...and the Jedi, the knights of the force hehe
Star Wars: American adaption of Friedrichs Nietzsches "Übermensch".....(Hahaha)

Say: Jemasze is the best player in Shogun-online no matter how often he plays foolishly!
All: Jemasze is the best player...

yours Jemasze
a little devil ( you may also call him a fool )

P.S.: Mag, hehe its good to see that the Khan of Khans comes back to the surface...i almost thought he was lost. But i realize with pleasure that it was not so... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Correct obvervation by the way: You can't have it all.... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[Tankdogg123]

I would say I was art of the above average players who is very willing to break into the elite group. Sometimes though when I learn new things I tend to disregard the basics which I am taught. My aim is to bring these together and also learn other things which I have not yet. After defeat I always kick myself and say why didn't i see that coming and why didn't I do this to stop it. I suppose it helps me for the future but I get real pissed off in the process.

[RageMonsta]

Tank you must also master the art of gaining respect...you could in time beat everybody....and beat them every time you play them....etc.

But until you shake your need to act like an ignorant kid....you will only gain honour points and never 'honour' nor respect..although you seem to be doing much better these days...good luck.

p.s. remember Monsta is always willing to chat..there is always more than one way to skin a cat Tank.

[Boromir]

I think it's a bit like saying who is the best boxer, because there are so many differents weights.
Some are good on Ironing Board, some are good with guns, some are good with Cav Archers, some are good at hills, some are better in the rain etc etc etc.

Boromir...

[MagyarKhans Cham]

and in the end just the heavy classes beat up the others...

[DarkSword]

i am aiming to be worst of the worst do I get recognition for that as well ...it is very hard to lose every game you know....there are others that indeed try to take this title from me but no! i will prevail!...wahahahaha

[Vanya]

He who is never nominated remains invisible to his foes, and thus, will become the best of them all... and he will always have the element of surprise due to his anonimity...

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif



[This message has been edited by Vanya (edited 05-25-2002).]

[Jemasze Toda]

Hehe Vanya, i knew you would understand....


http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif yours Jemasze

[tootee]

Blah Vanya! You blew my cover http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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[theforce]

According to the prophecy of La Magra the chosen will first enter the room in 23.10.2003 in the game rooms in Gamespy http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
The prophesy has been told and IS not true for the ones who believed http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!

[ElmarkOFear]

If one makes his "Best" player choice on many different factors besides pure skill . . . factors such as participation, research, tourney hosting, and any other items which have added to the community over the years . . then only one in my mind stands out as an overall "best" player. That would go to MagyarKhan. He has undeniably contributed much to the community and has put an unbelievable amount of time into the making of campaigns etc. There is a very small group of these skilled players that have gone above and beyond just honing their battle skills . . Gazoz, Yuuki, Kraellin, Monsta, Obake, TosaInu, Eradosan and a few others who not only play the game well, but contribute on a regular basis to make this game fresh, and fun for all. But taking all of these factors into the choice MagyarKhan is undeniably the "best". PS. Almost forgot about Tera! LOL I would have completely forgot, but I had pasta for lunch and somehow thought of him! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by ElmarkOFear (edited 05-25-2002).]

[Jemasze Toda]

...and as if a inner voice forced me, i have no choice but to bow to Elmarko, who set matters straight with just a few sentences...
hehe

yours Jemasze

LOL wait a few days and you'll begin to dream Terazawas at night Elmo http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif