Janissary Archers

[Bhruic]

In the last game I played as the Turks, I had taken Constantinople and "rushed" it for JHI. Worked pretty nicely, had quite a few by the time the Horde showed up. But seeing as Georgia gives +1 valour JA, I figured I'd go for them. Now, I rarely get to the point where I can make any of the Janissary units, as I tend to rush, but once I took out the Byz and Egyptians, I turtled this game, specifically to get Janissaries.

However, after looking at the stats for the JA, I'm not sure why I'd want to make them. Even accounting for +1 valour, they still are inferior to regular JI. Admittedly, they have a lower build cost requirement, but if you can get to the Military Academy, adding the Swordsmiths Guild doesn't seem that hard.

And also, it is quite easy to make Futuwwa or Turcoman Foot. Both have better combat ratings than the JA, although their morale isn't as high (and the Futus are uncontrolled).

So is there any point going for the JA? Is there any advantage to them I'm not seeing? Or would it be best to go JHI, then JI as archer/fighter supplement?

Bh

[Saki]

Hi,Been a while since I played MTW.Hopefully someone will point out if im wrong.

JA can fire 3 deep where other archers only fire 2 deep.

[katank]

well, all can fire 3 deep.

I think JA are better pure missiles and they fire faster so they mow down more than JI.

I usually prefer JI anyhow.

[Kristaps]

Quote[/b] (katank @ May 12 2004,17:55)]well, all can fire 3 deep.

I think JA are better pure missiles and they fire faster so they mow down more than JI.

I usually prefer JI anyhow.
If you look at the missile stats text file, you'll see that janissary archers use shortbow: the same one used by vanilla archers. Since the shot accuracy, lethality, velocity are determined by the weapon in MTW, there is no reason to believe JA shoot any better than the vanilla variety. I believe, the designers originally wanted to give JA's faster crosbows but somehow this didn't get to implementation :)

[katank]

you are right. never mind.

I thought they may have better rate of fire or something.

I remember them as being slightly better at missile dueling I think. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-embarassed.gif

[son of spam]

That's probably because they had some armor or something.

Also, consider the fact that JA's only cost 250 while JI cost over 350 IIRC.

EDIT: Maybe I should mention that I only use them in custom, as I've never gotten around to high turks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (Bhruic @ May 12 2004,17:22)]And also, it is quite easy to make Futuwwa or Turcoman Foot. Both have better combat ratings than the JA, although their morale isn't as high (and the Futus are uncontrolled).
That's the key point. The morale of JA is higher, but the morale of Futtawas is high enough, which means there's little motivation to build JAs. Its better to run other units through retraining to give them a little discipline, or to make JI's.

[ichi]

Like Katank I prefer Jani Inf. At V2 they got morale 8 and can fight pretty good. JI, Futas, and JHI make a great army. If you go with 8 JI you can target one or two enemy units at a time and then watch them dwindle then rout. Just be careful they dont handle a strong cav charge.

ichi

[pdoan8]

Since all three Janissary types required Military Academy, I skip the JA most of the time. Even without the Military Academy, JA still need Master bowyer. Compare the stats of JA to the stats of JI and Futuwwa, JA become even less appeal. JA, JI and Futuwwa all have the same base morale (4). Futuwwa should get +1 valour once I get up to the Master building level. JA lack the h2h power that make them less flexible as the other two. Moreover, Futuwwa available from early, this give them plenty of time for training and earn some valour long before the JA.

Like ichi said, combination of 8 JI-Futu properly protected by JHI and a couple of good cav can be very powerful.

[katank]

I love all jannies armies.

I only managed to build to it once and then they ate the mongols for breakfast

JAs are built in my campaigns only when I'm building to JI.

I just build the bow buildings first and thus produce the JA for 18 years until I get JI up.

[Oleander Ardens]

Quote[/b] (katank @ May 13 2004,10:23)]I love all jannies armies.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

Yup it gives you a special feeling. I too go first bow to get the JA out. An all Jannie Army is a great sight http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif