Britains greatest military leader

[Mount Suribachi]

I'm sure I've missed one or 2 obvious ones there, but hey ho.

I'm torn between Cromwell, Nelson & Wellington, but I think Cromwell *just* squeeks it for me. Ask me in a weeks time and I'll probly say Wellington http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[econ21]

I greatly admire Wellington as a soldier. I don't think he ever lost a battle, despite fighting an incredible amount usually against the odds against the leading European army led by fine French generals. He seems to have had a very assured strategic touch - protecting his relatively small expeditionary armies while taking the offensive where possible - and to have a developed an almost unbeatable counter to French Napoleonic tactics. I also admire some of his pithy battlefield comments - eg witnessing the aftermath of Waterloo "Aside from a battle lost, there is nothing so terrible as a battle won."

[ShadesWolf]

Arthur Wellesly (Wellington) would be the obvious selection, however, I would go for either Edward III or Henry V.

Both English Kings from the 100 years war, and they beat French forces who were 3+ times bigger in France, by the use of the excellent Longbows.

[Mount Suribachi]

well, so far 1 person has voted "other" but not bothered to tell us who they think it is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

BTW, I've put Edward Longshanks in there twice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif The 2nd one is meant to be Henry V. Any chance of a mod correcting it please?

[Cazbol]

I voted other for Marlborough.

[ShadesWolf]

Mount Suribachi I voted other, as I wanted either Henry V or Edward III

[JAG]

You missed quite a few of our greatest leaders out :/

[Rosacrux]

Richard "Lionheart" was French http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Michiel de Ruyter]

I voted for John Churchill, 1st Duke of Marlborough..

so I voted for other. Probably would hammer Welly any day of the week, and twice on Sunday... though it would cost him a good number of men...

IMHO Cromwell got lucky a few times that his oppomemts cavalry lost its discipline; otherwise the UK Civil War might have gone a whole different way..

[Mount Suribachi]

You know how I said


Quote[/b] ]I'm sure I've missed one or 2 obvious ones there, but hey ho

well I was watching Discovery this morning and realised I missed out Churchill/Malborough/Blenheim http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-speechless.gif

He certainly deserves to be up there with the big boys - defeated the French for the 1st time in 50 years, never lost a battle.


Quote[/b] ]You missed quite a few of our greatest leaders out :/

well, apart from Henry V & Malborough, who else should I have put on the list?


Quote[/b] ]IMHO Cromwell got lucky a few times that his oppomemts cavalry lost its discipline; otherwise the UK Civil War might have gone a whole different way..

I think you do Cromwell an injustice. He transformed the fortunes of the parliamentarians, and it was his leadership and training that produced disciplined cavalry that would charge, regroup, charge, regroup.....unlike the Royalist cavalry who would charge, then go rape & plunder.

[Seven.the.Hun]

lionheart, hmm...
such an auspicious name too
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

[Axeknight]

Damn tough one, this. I'd be inclined to go for Wellesley, but I believe Henry V was the greater man. Wellesley treated his soldiers almost as a nuisance that had to be put up with, yet the British redcoat was one of the greatest fighting soldiers of all time, able to stand disciplined, and fire a calm, regular 4 rounds per minute even under withering fire. IMO, Wellesley was a great commander, but not so great a soldier.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Wellington did lose a battle outside seringaptem in 1799. A night attack through a forest area was repulsed. His victory at Assaye was fantastic.

Edward the third was great, as was henry V.
Also Edward the Black prince should be there and Talbot for holding on to large areas of France in the 1420's and 30's against great odds. Also the Earl of Derby for great leadership in the early days of the HYW.

I don't have much love for Cromwell but he was a good leader

[Michiel de Ruyter]

Quote[/b] (Mount Suribachi @ May 14 2004,20:13)]I think you do Cromwell an injustice. He transformed the fortunes of the parliamentarians, and it was his leadership and training that produced disciplined cavalry that would charge, regroup, charge, regroup.....unlike the Royalist cavalry who would charge, then go rape & plunder.


I never ment to imply that Cromwell was not an important figure, nor to imply that he was not a main reason for the Parlementarian victory.

At Marston Moor and Naseby, Rupert could just as well have been the victor; Also, Cromwell served most of the war, if not the whole war under Sir Thomas Fairfax... The thing is, IMHO that Cromwell was simply the most apt at making propaganda, besides the fact that he had better ties with the dominant faction among the Parlementarians.


As for others, AFAIK Edward III never commanded the main armies in France in person; AFAIK at Poitiers/Maupertius he was not even present on the field, and Edward, the Black Prince was the victor.... Crécy was IMHO in large part due to French stupidity rather then English brillinace. I have to admit though that I do have to read up on that part of military history

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Your wrong about Edward III, he commanded his armies on a number of occasions on huge chevachees through enemy territory. I think you undermine the discipline and training of the English force at Crecy. They were tired, hungry and outnumbered and they managed to beat a French force nearly 3 times there number.

Read Trial by fire and battle by jonathan sumption. It is great reading for the HYW.

[Alrowan]

cromwell... his new army kicked ass ;)

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Nelson.
BTW, Wellington was a coward bastar* who only reached the rank of General because his brother was Governor of India, he lied about his nationality, he deserted his troops before he became general, when he was general he lied about William of Orange and Blutcher's roles in key battles, after the war he was a grumpy old fart who imposed himself on others and survived 10+ assassination attempts.
Just my 2 cents.
-Capo

[JAG]

LOL

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Cap, don't take this as being rude but your talking out of your arse http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

It maybe that he rose high due to his birth but he was a damn fine general. You seem to let personality get in the way of your view, Nelson and marlborough were effected by there personal lifes and there names stained due to the fact( Nelson by hid love of women and Marlborough political problems with politicians being jealous of him at home)

[JAG]

Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ May 16 2004,14:06)]Cap, don't take this as being rude but your talking out of your arse http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Unfortunately it seems it is a regular occurance. Capo if you make broad sweeping statements about history, you really need to back up your points with facts rather than sensationalist stories and opinions.

[TheSilverKnight]

Cromwell was a twit (sorry for that, just don't like him). He ordered Good King Charlies' head cut off. Now there's something wrong with a person who does that

(By the way M.S., can you tell I'm a Royalist? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )

[monkian]

I'll go for Wellsley.

Theres only one way to win a war- shouting http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

Quote[/b] (TheSilverKnight @ May 17 2004,13:00)]Cromwell was a twit (sorry for that, just don't like him). He ordered Good King Charlies' head cut off. Now there's something wrong with a person who does that

(By the way M.S., can you tell I'm a Royalist? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )
King Charles was a Moron who didn't/couldn't accept that the situation had irrevocably changed. He simply couldn't be trusted to keep his word. Every time there was trouble during his reign, he would back down to the troublemakers, agree to solve their complaints, then once it had all died down would go and kill em all. If he'd been a smart King and accepted that he was no longer above the law & parliament he may have kept his head. Hell, he may even have kept his crown.

But the muppet couldn't be trusted to behave and whilst his trial was a sham, Cromwell had little choice but to kill him.

[PanzerJaeger]

Only one vote for monty.. how sad. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I voted Nelson as Wellington had too many votes.. He was an excellent naval commander, which has always been the key to British success in the world.