Shocking: AI defends both bridges

[R'as al Ghul]

Hi all

Last night I played the NapMod and attacked a German Province. I think it was Bavaria. It was a Bridge Battle.
I wasn't to worried about attacking because I had three units of 8 pounders, lots of good Infantry, 4 units of Cav and some lower Infantry as Cannonfodder.
The Enemy had 6-8 units of Rebels.
In open field battle they would have been no match.
I saw on the Pre-battle screen that it would be a two bridges battle. Well, the tactic is clear in this situation: Engage one bridge with Infantry, shoot the Defender with Art and charge over the second bridge with Cav to reach the flank/ rear of the Enemy line already engaged in the bridge battle.
We all know that the AI always concentrates on one bridge, ignoring the other.
At least this tactic worked in MTW and VI.

Imagine my surprise when I found that the AI had set up to defend both (all of them) bridges http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif
I was in deep shock. What's gotten into it? Has it finally come to sense?
The AI had assigned one unit of LineInfantry to one bridge, while the other units were deployed near to the other bridge but slighty more to the center between the bridges.
So, I started to soften up the Enemy with my Artillery. He stands his ground stoically. I end the bombardment to approach the first bridge, lure him to the bridge with the idea to concentrate his units in a smaller space to cause more casualties with the artillery. It works but my Art runs out of Ammo. Meanwhile I try to charge over the second bridge with a unit of Ulans, followed by two units of Hussars. A total of about 180 men were reduced to 10, routing off the field. The Enemy Line had lost only about 20 out of 200. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif
At the first bridge the slaughter continued. His inferior Line was reduced to remnants but still held the bridge.

Suddenly, the battle was over due to time out?
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgh What the F**k?
This never ever happened to me in hundreds of battles.
Not only the time out was quite surprising but the fact that the AI has shown some brains in this situation most astonished me.

Has anybody encountered this before?
Has it even come so far as the AI attacking both bridges?
Now, that would be really scary http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Cheers

R'as al Ghul

Edit: Forgot to mention the bodycount: Almost a stalemate with 800 - 900 dead on either side.

[motorhead]

Must be something in the air this time of year. In recent Russian campaign, GH invaded on schedule. They attacked and i was defending on a two bridge map. Concentrated all but 1 unit on a single bridge, put 1 armored spearmen kinda near, but not directly in front of the other bridge. First wave or two of GH went as normal, pounded them with cats and arbs/xbows/archers as they try and run their cav across the bridge into my spears. Then, next batch of around 8 units comes on and makes a beeline for the other bridge. I hold them with the spears near bridge-2, and get some other units over there to support them. Over the course of the battle the GH switched between attacking bridges 3 times, and twice there was simultaneous heavy combat on both bridges. My only guess is their reinforcement point was perfectly between both bridges and the game logic actually switched back and forth. I wish more 2 bridge battles were like that

[R'as al Ghul]

motorhead,

this is even more eery than what happened to me.
Switching attack between bridges?
Attacking both bridges?
Wassup? A hidden feature, that activates after 2 years of play?
Imagine the Ai' generals: "Troops We have given the stupid human player time enough to train his abilities. Now the time has come to strike back with vengeance and furious anger (Samuel L. Jackson being the AI General). We will no longer loose battles we ought to win. We will no longer allow ourselves to be outflanked....No prisoners and no mercy. Kill all humans"


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

What's going on here?

[Kristaps]

Quote[/b] (R'as al Ghul @ May 13 2004,06:44)]motorhead,

this is even more eery than what happened to me.
Switching attack between bridges?
Attacking both bridges?
Wassup? A hidden feature, that activates after 2 years of play?
Imagine the Ai' generals: "Troops We have given the stupid human player time enough to train his abilities. Now the time has come to strike back with vengeance and furious anger (Samuel L. Jackson being the AI General). We will no longer loose battles we ought to win. We will no longer allow ourselves to be outflanked....No prisoners and no mercy. Kill all humans"


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

What's going on here?
Hmm, i've seen plenty of times when they defend both bridges but have NEVER EVER seen them ATTACK both... That's gotta be something :)

Nevertheless, I suspect that there could be a some human units placed close to both bridges that triggered the double attack. I have never seen the AI noticing the other bridge if all my troops are amassed by one.

[R'as al Ghul]

So,

having the AI defend both is common to you?
Well, I guess I have too often avoided bridge battles by attacking from another province. Otherwise I would have noticed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
What I've experienced is that when you approach one bridge, the AI will completely forget the other bridge. Thus making it possible to charge over the second bridge with Cav. That has always been my tactic and it worked everytime.
And, as if the AI remembered that he covered both this time.
Moreover it deployed its troops right away from the beginning in this fashion. So none of my units triggered any AI-event.

But I agree, the attack on both is even more challenging and surprising.

Cheers

[Apocalyp$e]

I have seen them defend both bridges a couple times before...

[R'as al Ghul]

Is it possible that it occurs in Xpert-Level but not in Hard or normal?

[octavian]

i dont think so, i have had the AI defend both on both Hard and Expert, it is possible that your troop deployment has a lot to do with it.

[Tricky Lady]

I remember the GH attacking over 2 bridges in an "Easy" campaign. I suppose it's coincidence.

[SpencerH]

I've seen the AI attack both bridges but its been a rare occurance and the attacks are usually not well coordinated. I cant think of a time when they defended both (although I think that has more to do with the defensive setup position than anything else).

[katank]

I've had cases in which I played a running match between them by dashing cav back and forth drawing their troops after me on the other side.

I ran them dog tired and then charged across the other bridge that they weren't defending.

You need about 5-6 cav to get them to pay attention.

BTW, I was blocking both with spears even though I was attacking.

I also lined up nice quantity of arbs and artillery in the middle.

It was slapstick.

They ran to defend empty bridgehead from cav rush and do so repeatedly only to get pounded by missiles.

Still. I did have intelligent GH once too that actually broke a lone halb I stationed at the second bridge.

In order to not get pincered, I managed to cross the first one and instead switched sides with the GH.

funny how the reinforcements came from the enemy's rear.

It was quite amusing though.

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] ] Imagine my surprise when I found that the AI had set up to defend both (all of them) bridges http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif This never ever happened to me in hundreds of battles. Not only the time out was quite surprising but the fact that the AI has shown some brains in this situation most astonished me. Has anybody encountered this before?

Yup, happens when my enemy has enough troops to spare and a high ranking general. I´ve no mod or done no changes to files that could affect the AI´s behaviour.


Quote[/b] ] Has it even come so far as the AI attacking both bridges? Now, that would be really scary

Yup, happened on several occasions against Byz and their 9 star general. He set up Treb.arch and Byz.inf on the first bridge that I was moving against. Well into battle he crosses the second bridge with two Kats that eventually routed my little Eggy boys.

It seems that a 9 star commander is fairly good in the field making moves like above, retreating to woods with foot-soldiers when opposed with a massive missile invasion etc. I´ve often wondered what it will be like to change all AI´s generals command-ratings to 9... it might prove to be a good game

[gaijinalways]

I too have had some battles where the AI has defended two bridges, though sometimes it was more likely if the two bridges were near each other and thus the AI's troops could easily approach either bridge. Several times though the AI has adopted a high ground with art. that could pound both bridges; this always made it tough to attack.

Whether the AI is getting smarter only his chipmaster knows

[Seven.the.Hun]

from what i remember, one outta 10 times u might see AI dividing up its efforts better and defending or attacking both bridges in a 2 bridge battle, i suppose it has to attempt to redeem itself for other poor performances, but dont get me wrong i like these battles, when they pop up, its more challenging when the AI is not missing every obvious effective tactic... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[MalibuMan]

I've had the Mongols send their heavy cav round one bridge to flank me while their main force attacked the one I was set up to defend. Luckily I had some halberdiers with +3 armour, so they minced them

[Drucius]

Defending both bridges appears to be the norm in Nap Mod, not so much in M:TW.

[nick_maxell]

Quote[/b] (gaijinalways @ May 14 2004,01:03)]I too have had some battles where the AI has defended two bridges, though sometimes it was more likely if the two bridges were near each other and thus the AI's troops could easily approach either bridge. Several times though the AI has adopted a high ground with art. that could pound both bridges; this always made it tough to attack.

Whether the AI is getting smarter only his chipmaster knows
I concur - in MTW on all levels I saw them defending both bridges if close together even with 0 command generals. With medium distance it is hard to tell but it seems to me they defend both if they have artillery in the middle reaching both bridges - maybe also depends on the troops they use to defend I see it about 2/8 times - if they are far apart - haven t seen the AI defend both yet.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

nick

[VikingHorde]

I have seen it some times. It's great when the AI makes surprises http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[RisingSun]

You guys sure you didn't accidentally click "Multiplayer?"

[katank]

Quite sure.

no florins levels, campaign map & the works.

the AI is capable of acting semi intelligently sometimes.

[TinCow]

I have seen both bridge defenses many times, though there's always one bridge that receives more defenders. Reinforcements are often moved to the less defended one upon attack though.

I have seen a simultaneous attack on both bridges once. It occured in Kiev when I was playing Poland and being attacked by the Horde (2400 vs 7000). I even did a write-up of the attack in an Entrance Hall thread.

You can find the write-up here (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=16454).

[WorkNeglecter]

Quote[/b] (R'as al Ghul @ May 13 2004,12:35)]We all know that the AI always concentrates on one bridge, ignoring the other.
The AI will send troops to whatever bridge is being defended.

It's 1189; I'm Hung/Expert/VI. I decide to break my longstanding alliance with the Byz and invade Khazar from Kiev (and all along my front lines).

I have a lousy general and mediocre troops but figure I can leave if my catapults don't put a good dent in their heavy units. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

However, the Egyptians decide to invade from Crimea and across the Black Sea.

Now I have to beat both to win. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-anxious.gif

I've got 700 troops - mostly steppe cav, two cats, some crappy infantry (woodsmen) and a few jav units. One armored spearmen, two archers. Commanded by a one-star general. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Byz: 4 star gen, 1100 troops, plenty of heavy steppe cav, royal khazars, trebizonds, spears.

Egy: surprise: 2200 troops, tons of light infantry and spears, camels, ghazi bodyguards. 6 star king.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

I save the game and decide to play until I've won it. Some will call this cheating, but I consider it a challenge.

I lost several times but learned a lot about the AI, so here's how I finally won it:

I am placed in the centre of a 2-bridge map. I place the cats in the middle, covering both bridgeheads on both sides. Egypt appears on my side of the river. As soon as the battle begins I send all my troops towards the far corner of the map, away from the Egyptians and from the bridge defended by the Byz. They start towards me but encounter the Byz bridge first. AND THEY DECIDE TO CROSS RATHER THAN ASSAULT ME http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif They launch an attack, and when they're in a crush, I start lobbing rocks onto the melee, killing both Byz and Egyptians. Woo hoo The Byz general goes down in combat against Egypt and then I take out the Egyptian king, who is stuck in melee and susceptible to boulders. Now I'm the best general on the field. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

Well, the battle wore on, and my units were able to take advantage of the ongoing skirmishes between the two opposing armies to clean up. I used my steppes to hit archers and avars to take on the heavies. I was coming at them from all sides. I took heavy losses but won the day.

I lost this battle whenever I did not get out of Egypt's way fast enough, or when I tried to cross the second bridge too early. I kept my troops in the corner - except for the cats - until most of the two enemy armies had been worn down.

The best way to keep the enemy from crossing is not to make a move towards it. If you see the enemy going to defend it, just ignore those units, they won't cross over unless you approach them

At least in my experience.

[NewJeffCT]

I've seen the AI defend both bridges several times. Normally, I do get what the original poster said - AI only defends one bridge. But, I can't count on that. It does seem silly that the AI leaves the 2nd bridge open for getting flanked by cavalry.