View Full Version : The Gamestar movie
The first thing I noticed was the cost of the two options for the army to build. Yes, as we suspected, and have quite likely been told a few times, the armies build forts.
The Watchtower costs what looks like 200 dinarii, the Fort is a bit harder to see, but it is either 800 or 1000 dinarii. That looks to be rather expensive.
The Senate general (he doesn't look like the Julii diplomat) says: "Welcome Friend [of Rome] What do you need to talk about?"
When the offer to attack the Seleucids has been made he answers "We propose the following", which is 285 dinarii for the attack.
When the roman army disembarks, the cursor hovers for a while over a "Highway", and it says it adds to tradeincome.
When the romans attack the local army we see a nice prebattle screen, it looks like a general is called a "Captain". The Seleucid Captain is good with 6 stars (roman Captain has 0).
The prebattle speech is actually made until the deployment is finished. The general mentions a few things about how battle is hard before breakfast (maybe an indication of his rather bad generalship) and that there are no allies of the enemy present. The rest is harder to make out.
The units speak in english, and they don't sound all that great to me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
The archers have a huge range, but then again the enemy cavalry moves like lightning. When the arrows hit (flamearrows) the target light up and die. Doesn't look good, like the target gets a yellow corona or something.
Pikes look great in the deep blocks when they march. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
It seems the archers on the elephants fire at will, should prove quite interesting.
When the camera pans back at the romans it is clearly visible that arrows are sticking out of the ground. Nice work. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
The elephants move with great speed and they hit like an avalanche. Eventhough they don't kill everybody they hit, they still kill a lot (just look at all the flat images that indicate dead guys as opposed to the more full ones) and they could do this all day.
When they face the pigs they do actually turn around and make noices as if scared, but they do come back and do not fear the pigs more than actually run them over. The pigs themselves look ugly, with the same ugly corona... Again the elephants move with great speed, making them hard to dodge.
They simply look overpowering. Perhaps some of the reason is because they have a great general to give them bonusses of various sorts.
Aymar de Bois Mauri
05-17-2004, 01:05
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ May 16 2004,18:17)]They simply look overpowering. Perhaps some of the reason is because they have a great general to give them bonusses of various sorts.
That would be strange on an irrational creature. Elephants aren't really enlightned about the general's habilities, right? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif Contrary to humans who get motivated by the general's fame. Elephants don't comment: "Hey, Large Trunk Our general frightens enemy humans" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif
It looked to me like they [elephants] got spooked by the burning pigs and threw off their archers then went wild running off in all directions. If you look at the elephants after they encounter the pigs the archers that were on the top are now nowhere to be seen. Still, scared elephant or controlled the fact is they ripped through the legionaries sent to stop them and were pretty much unstoppable. And i thought CA said that high ranked generals would no longer effect "valor" but would effect things like discipline. So much for that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif
by the way the speech is this (as much as i can figure out):
"A battle is never an easy thing to face, especially before breakfast. But think of this; They feel just as bad, and don't have me to give them victory All Seleucid soldiers think they are as good as we...But they are wrong I think they are [can't understand] looking for a [can't understand]. They stand alone No friends have come to this place to die for them, does this not say something about their honor? Their standing among Nations? Their army is one quarter of the enemy's strength, so sharpen your swords one last time, so when we will have killed them all, we will have made a good start *cheers erupt*"
The speech could go on but is ended by the player when the "start battle" button is hit.
RisingSun
05-17-2004, 02:12
I thought the speech was quite well written. Perhaps the general has the "orator" virtue. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif The voice acting, on the other hand... Well not so much the acting as the accent.
Those elephants were nuts... They went right through the formation And unlike earlier versions, they didn't just make a hole in the formation, they killed everyone in their way. Did anyone else see that elephant attack that pig, or was I imagining things?
Quote[/b] ]I think they are [can't understand] looking for a [can't understand] - Monk
"..they are corpses looking for a grave..."
Quote[/b] (PSYCHO @ May 16 2004,21:53)]
Quote[/b] ]I think they are [can't understand] looking for a [can't understand] - Monk
"..they are corpses looking for a grave..."
Ah yes i understand now. For some reason i couldn't make out those two words.
Swoosh So
05-17-2004, 05:35
well an elephants always going to smash hvy foot easy thats what their supposed to do The way to kill elephants is with skirmishers like javelinmen and archers. How is an elephant going to catch a cav archer?
Leet Eriksson
05-17-2004, 05:59
Hmmm skirmisher units can handle elephants,but the problem lies in cataphract elephants wich are resistant.Thats why i think the pigs were added to balance it,so elephants won't become too overpowered.
Swoosh So
05-17-2004, 14:37
Yes but surely wont be hard to kill the riders on the back of those elephants, sending them into confusion. Anyways you will probably find that javelins have armour piercing like they do in mtw and ive noticed the ranger of skirmishers is greater.
Quote[/b] (Monk @ May 16 2004,19:48)]It looked to me like they [elephants] got spooked by the burning pigs and threw off their archers then went wild running off in all directions. If you look at the elephants after they encounter the pigs the archers that were on the top are now nowhere to be seen. Still, scared elephant or controlled the fact is they ripped through the legionaries sent to stop them and were pretty much unstoppable. And i thought CA said that high ranked generals would no longer effect "valor" but would effect things like discipline. So much for that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif
Yes... the elephants do get scared by the pigs, the archers are indeed thrown out. But not the mahouts?? That is odd as they have an even more slippy mount than those in the tower (unless the tower falls off of course).
Anyway, I know that generas are not giving Valour anymore, but that doesn't mean they can't have good V&Vs now can it? Besides the generals now affect Morale, which quite possibly mean the elephants got back under control quite fast after the pig-scare.
The problem with these elephants is a number of things:
First. They plow right through the good legionaries. In itself not bad, though perhaps a bit overrated. Elephants tended to stay and fight, at least that is how I have understood them.
Second. Their units are rather big, about 20 or so. In two lines they have as big a frontage as the legionaries, meaning the entire unit of legionaries will be hit.
Third. They are damn fast and quick to turn, too much for my oppinion.
Fourth. These are only the unarmoured elephants. Try and imagine going up against those
I'm certain that the morale boost by the general has made them formidable, but even without that it seems the only chance one has got is to avoid fighting them as their great speed would give them the edge against skirmishers
Barkhorn1x
05-17-2004, 16:17
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ May 17 2004,08:59)]The problem with these elephants is a number of things:
First. They plow right through the good legionaries. In itself not bad, though perhaps a bit overrated. Elephants tended to stay and fight, at least that is how I have understood them.
Second. Their units are rather big, about 20 or so. In two lines they have as big a frontage as the legionaries, meaning the entire unit of legionaries will be hit.
Third. They are damn fast and quick to turn, too much for my oppinion.
Fourth. These are only the unarmoured elephants. Try and imagine going up against those
I'm certain that the morale boost by the general has made them formidable, but even without that it seems the only chance one has got is to avoid fighting them as their great speed would give them the edge against skirmishers
I really enjoyed the video - on the whole - as I was waiting for an "un-interrupted" view of the strat/battle procedure.
The elephants do have me worried tho'. Historically, elephants were decisive about twice and heavy infantrt could defeat them (Hydaspes anyone). In this battle they just rolled through/over everything - it was a slaughter.
What happened to the pila volleys? Where were the Roman missle troops?
Maybe this was just a case of a poor Roman commander getting his butt well deservedly kicked - I really hope so. However, if the game is forcing us to balance the UBER elephants with UBER SILLY flaming pigs then I for one will not be happy.
Hopefully, they are still tuning the elephants strenghts/weaknesses.
Barkhorn.
Aymar de Bois Mauri
05-17-2004, 16:42
Quote[/b] (Barkhorn1x @ May 17 2004,10:17)]However, if the game is forcing us to balance the UBER elephants with UBER SILLY flaming pigs then I for one will not be happy.
Hopefully, they are still tuning the elephants strenghts/weaknesses.
Barkhorn.
Preciselly. Ridiculous...
BTW, Kraxis. I wasn't fooling around when I've said that a general cannot affect morale of an elephant. That is ridiculous http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ May 17 2004,10:42)]
Quote[/b] (Barkhorn1x @ May 17 2004,10:17)]However, if the game is forcing us to balance the UBER elephants with UBER SILLY flaming pigs then I for one will not be happy.
Hopefully, they are still tuning the elephants strenghts/weaknesses.
Barkhorn.
Preciselly. Ridiculous...
BTW, Kraxis. I wasn't fooling around when I've said that a general cannot affect morale of an elephant. That is ridiculous http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
No, but he can't affect the morale of a horse either... So if elephants couldn't be affected by the general then cavalry shouldn't either.
Don't forget about the mahouts or riders of horses.
Mahouts had that chisel and hammer to kill a rampaging elephant. But how many times have we heard of rampaging elephants getting killed by their mounts? I have heard of none... That indicated two things, the mahout didn't want to kill the elephant and that he didn't want to reengage.
Even a crazed elephant can be calmed by a person it has great trust in, just like a horse. Of course it is very much harder to do it to an elephant but the mahout has a much more personal relationship to an elephant than a rider in general has to his horse. Thus if the general has generated good morale in the mahout it is possible that he would do more to control the elephant if it goes out of control.
Hi people
Which issue of Gamestar is this movie in ? is it downloadable ? If so I would love a link or do I have to buy the printed magazine ?
Thx for your help. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
It is available over at TWC... of course if you don't want to register, then I guess you have to buy it. In that case it has to be the May issue and very recent.
Thanks very much for the writeup and for the directions
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Aymar de Bois Mauri
05-17-2004, 18:21
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ May 17 2004,11:54)]
Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ May 17 2004,10:42)]
Quote[/b] (Barkhorn1x @ May 17 2004,10:17)]However, if the game is forcing us to balance the UBER elephants with UBER SILLY flaming pigs then I for one will not be happy.
Hopefully, they are still tuning the elephants strenghts/weaknesses.
Barkhorn.
Preciselly. Ridiculous...
BTW, Kraxis. I wasn't fooling around when I've said that a general cannot affect morale of an elephant. That is ridiculous http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
No, but he can't affect the morale of a horse either... So if elephants couldn't be affected by the general then cavalry shouldn't either.
Don't forget about the mahouts or riders of horses.
Mahouts had that chisel and hammer to kill a rampaging elephant. But how many times have we heard of rampaging elephants getting killed by their mounts? I have heard of none... That indicated two things, the mahout didn't want to kill the elephant and that he didn't want to reengage.
Even a crazed elephant can be calmed by a person it has great trust in, just like a horse. Of course it is very much harder to do it to an elephant but the mahout has a much more personal relationship to an elephant than a rider in general has to his horse. Thus if the general has generated good morale in the mahout it is possible that he would do more to control the elephant if it goes out of control.
No. As you've said, the elephants and horses have a different kind of obedience to their riders. Their control is different.
In the case of knights an such, the important part is the rider, not the horse. The rider controls the horse much more than the elephant rider controls the elephant. Horses are much more obedient than elephants. So, accordingly it's the knight that recieves the morale bonus, not the horse.
In the case of the elephant it's the exact opposite, the elephant only obeys up to a point. After that it's the elephant that rules not it's rider. So, accordingly their morale should be fixed, not variable.
The_Emperor
05-17-2004, 18:25
The other thing you have to consider about rampaging elephants is that the rider might not be able to stay up there long enough to chisel away...
When an Elephant runs amok I wouldn't be surprised if the rider gets thrown clear in the confusion.
The GameStar mag is not out yet...it will be on 2nd June. They promised a thorough preview...and I am hoping some more footage.
Quid
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ May 17 2004,18:54)]Mahouts had that chisel and hammer to kill a rampaging elephant. But how many times have we heard of rampaging elephants getting killed by their mounts? I have heard of none... That indicated two things, the mahout didn't want to kill the elephant and that he didn't want to reengage.
Or the mahout had been killed or thrown off?
CBR
Basileus
05-17-2004, 20:47
i cant stress how horrible the pigs look bah, elephants look to powerfull aswell i agree..
Big King Sanctaphrax
05-17-2004, 20:48
I too agree on the pigs, they look like they are made of molten rock, either that or someone has cast a Lvl.4 fire spell on them. They certaintly don't look like they're on fire.
Aymar de Bois Mauri
05-17-2004, 21:54
Quote[/b] (Big King Sanctaphrax @ May 17 2004,14:48)]I too agree on the pigs, they look like they are made of molten rock, either that or someone has cast a Lvl.4 fire spell on them.
Well, there goes the bacon for my Roman legionaires... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-sad.gif
Damn those elephants chew up the line in no time.
Link edited out for reasons unknown.
Barkhorn1x
05-17-2004, 23:58
Quote[/b] (SirOsis @ May 17 2004,17:44)]Damn those elephants chew up the line in no time.
Word
Barkhorn.
Quote[/b] (SirOsis @ May 18 2004,01:44)]Damn those elephants chew up the line in no time.
I am not sure that Siblesz will appreciate a direct link, I advise you to edit your post. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
Mouzafphaerre
05-18-2004, 01:03
-
The bacons running around look like runaways from Hades. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
_
Quote[/b] (Trax @ May 17 2004,16:30)]
I am not sure that Siblesz will appreciate a direct link, I advise you to edit your post. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
No direct links? Why is that? Is it exclusive to them?
I noticed that the riders didn't get thrown off, but when the Elephants go beserk, they plow through more Legionares and the Legionares hit the archers and send them flying, rather funny. Also, after the elephants collide. You can see a number of legionares get up from the attack.
The Wizard
05-18-2004, 09:14
Quote[/b] (Trax @ May 18 2004,00:30)]
Quote[/b] (SirOsis @ May 18 2004,01:44)]Damn those elephants chew up the line in no time.
I am not sure that Siblesz will appreciate a direct link, I advise you to edit your post. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
Yawn... that is ripped footage anyways, so he has nothing to say against direct linking.
~Wiz
Direct linking is very bad taste in the first place, you are using his server space and he doesen´t get any credit for it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif
Knight_Yellow
05-18-2004, 11:56
point is though is it wrong to steal from a thief?
Shades of grey, Shades of grey......
Brighdaasa
05-18-2004, 11:58
trax, the original link was edited out, but it still shows in your post http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Quote[/b] (Brighdaasa @ May 18 2004,13:58)]trax, the original link was edited out, but it still shows in your post http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Thanks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
I loved that movie, up until when the Elephants charged home.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
The game looks so good, except the elephants seem ridiculously overpowered. And the flaming pigs just seemed dumb. It's strange - I don't recall the elephants in Time Commanders being so devastating.
AlanH_30
05-18-2004, 12:41
I agree with Simon,
The elephants are a bit overpowering and the flaming pigs look stupid. Surely if a pig was set on fire like that it would be dead within 20 seconds - it certainly wouldn't be in a state to chase after enemies
I really hope that they also get rid of the green markers under the units. Why the hell do they need them anyway? the unit flag bobs up and down. The green markers just gives it that C&C/AOE feel which I personally don't like
The_Emperor
05-18-2004, 12:53
Quote[/b] (Simon Appleton @ May 18 2004,12:22)]I loved that movie, up until when the Elephants charged home.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
The game looks so good, except the elephants seem ridiculously overpowered. And the flaming pigs just seemed dumb. It's strange - I don't recall the elephants in Time Commanders being so devastating.
Thats because the Elephants in Time Commanders fought a much more balanced mix of troops... At Raphia they faced Light Inf, Skirmishers and Archers and suffered for it.
The only other battle we had for Elephant reference was Trebbia and that was the very first episode (you know with the heavy inf sliding back like they were on skates and older game mechanics)...
Personally I think that their charge looks more devestating than it is because the men are thrown about in all directions, however they do get back up again.
Also you have to remember that the Elephants faced Heavy Inf in that vid, which is the unit they are designed to kill... Its A bit like sending Camels up against Cav in MTW, you know the Camels will kill those Knights
Sir Robin
05-18-2004, 19:07
Was anyone else suddenly hungry for pork chops afterwards or was it just me?
The_Emperor
05-18-2004, 22:49
Quote[/b] (Sir Robin @ May 18 2004,19:07)]Was anyone else suddenly hungry for pork chops afterwards or was it just me?
No but I had the sudden urge to cook some bacon and eggs... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Aymar de Bois Mauri
05-18-2004, 22:49
Quote[/b] (Sir Robin @ May 18 2004,13:07)]Was anyone else suddenly hungry for pork chops afterwards or was it just me?
Not just you... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink.gif
ThePeach
05-22-2004, 21:53
where can i pick up this movie?
Jango Fett
05-23-2004, 03:37
yea where is it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
bighairyman
05-23-2004, 04:01
Quote[/b] (Jango Fett @ May 22 2004,21:37)]yea where is it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Go to any major game site, and you will probably find it. Some you may need to register , some may not. I got it from Here (http://www.legiontotalwar.com/) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
a_ver_est
05-24-2004, 12:14
IMHO a burning pig must be scared and will scream and run not just be waiting ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif
I hope there will be and option to start burning ... if not is impossible that the pigs are live along all the battle.
IMHO elephants are'nt overpowered, just think that is running against you ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Quote[/b] (a_ver_est @ May 24 2004,06:14)]IMHO a burning pig must be scared and will scream and run not just be waiting ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif
I hope there will be and option to start burning ... if not is impossible that the pigs are live along all the battle.
IMHO elephants are'nt overpowered, just think that is running against you ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
You can see they die out relatively fast, and that they run about. Not like I would expect them to like in real life, apparently the unit has to stay together to some degree.
There would be little point to have the pigs if we can't light them on fire, especially since it looks like we can light arrows ourselves (order at the bottom-right of the screen).
hundurinn
05-24-2004, 23:25
Elephants will brake the line but not kill everyone they hit. If an elephant runs through the line of legionaries maybe 5 will die. Then they will regroup and prepare for assault. I agree that pigs are ugly and it ling time until this game comes out so they will change them for sure....somehow and hopefully http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif Pigs are probably just as dangerous to you like the elephants, they brake the line of your men making them easy to kill and they light them on fire. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-anxious.gif Just don't use them if they are ugly, rather use your own men to destroy the elephants.
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