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View Full Version : PIGS!  we need em!



Fearless
05-17-2004, 09:39
Having had my say about flaming pigs I happen to watch the Gamestar video after my initial comments WHOOPS we need 'em seriously. Anything to stop those elephants watch the vid and you'll see what I mean.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-embarassed.gif

The_Emperor
05-17-2004, 12:28
Quote[/b] (Fearless @ May 17 2004,09:39)]Having had my say about flaming pigs I happen to watch the Gamestar video after my initial comments WHOOPS we need 'em seriously. Anything to stop those elephants watch the vid and you'll see what I mean.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-embarassed.gif
Havy Inf and Elephants... not a good combination.

Did you notice in that vid that as the Elephants ran amok they trampled up the rear of the Roman Line?

Clearly Pigs are not 100% effective Units against Elephants, as you have no idea where the Elephant stampede will go once it is started

Sounds like fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

SwordsMaster
05-17-2004, 12:38
It is going to be a really fun game indeed IMO.
We have Panzer-Elephants, Flaming pigs in impressive quantities, Bullwarriors, and sexy nigth raiders. That is apart from hundreds of druids (for godssake they are supposed to be "holy men" for the pagans).Women screaming at your formations, barbarians showing their neither regions, sapping ability for everyone, and hiding in forests all of them. It seems fairly obvious why the Romans conquered them all. Specially if they just screamed obscenities and then hide in forests with the pigs.

Is someone going to fight at all in this game?

Aymar de Bois Mauri
05-17-2004, 17:01
Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ May 17 2004,06:38)]We have Panzer-Elephants, Flaming pigs in impressive quantities, Bullwarriors, and sexy nigth raiders. That is apart from hundreds of druids (for godssake they are supposed to be "holy men" for the pagans).Women screaming at your formations, barbarians showing their neither regions, sapping ability for everyone, and hiding in forests all of them. It seems fairly obvious why the Romans conquered them all. Specially if they just screamed obscenities and then hide in forests with the pigs.

Is someone going to fight at all in this game?
ROTFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif

Problem is: I'm confirming my worst fears about this game... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-cry.gif

Kommodus
05-18-2004, 16:58
Stampeding war elephants and flaming pigs are both cool ideas, but I rather hope that both (and particularly the flaming pigs) are sort of novelty items. Most battles should still be decided primarily by infantry and cavalry tactics, with these unconventional support troops types only having a limited effect on the outcome.

Flaming pigs were extremely rare, and they shouldn't appear much in the game. Elephants were not uncommon, but they still should not appear in large numbers. This is especially true since the armies depicted in the game are quite a bit smaller than their historical counterparts. Remember that 10 elephants will have a much larger impact when the opposing armies have only 1000-2000 men each, than 50 elephants would have when the opposing armies are closer to 50,000 men in number.

That's why the elephants seemed to be so effective in the Gamestar video. The Roman line was so small (comparatively speaking) that the elephants were able to completely roll over a significant portion of it. Historically, they may have been able to break a heavy infantry line with ease, but they would only have been able to break a relatively small part of it at a time. I suppose they could create holes for the rest of the army to exploit, but I wouldn't expect them to put an entire flank to flight. If sent in unsupported, they would probably cause chaos and some casualties for a while, and then eventually be brought down.

I will say, though, that the Roman commander used precisely the wrong tactics in dealing with the elephants. A solid line of legionaires, without even any gaps in it, is not the right thing to do when facing elephants.

Sir Robin
05-18-2004, 19:14
IIRC the Romans were doomed from the start. The Seleucid General had six stars while the Roman General had none.

I think the speech mentions how they are outnumbered, and they started downhill from the Seleucids.

When combined with the "non-deployment" of Romans it was game over before it even began.

I imagine when facing Elephants in numbers you should probably keep your pigs and archers up front to break up the charge when it begins, not afterwards.

Knight_Yellow
05-18-2004, 20:33
When Elephants are around i recommend 5 squads of 50 caliber hvy machine guns entrenched on a hill with air support.

failing that just whore a hill with lots of archers and light infantry throwing spears and stuff.

Kraxis
05-18-2004, 20:38
Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ May 18 2004,14:33)]When Elephants are around i recommend 5 squads of 50 caliber hvy machine guns entrenched on a hill with air support.

failing that just whore a hill with lots of archers and light infantry throwing spears and stuff.
Just too bad if he brings some heavy cavalry as well...

Scipio
05-18-2004, 20:43
If they make elephants historical they shouldnt be too hard to deal with;all you need, light inf, archers, slingers if tyou have them and the like as the front line, use them against the elephants... If you succed with this, think of it this way; you now have made I dunno 2 of his units void and unusable with little casualties on your side + their is a chance of the elephants to run into their own army causing fear, confusion and disorder http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Still sound like a super unit>? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

RisingSun
05-18-2004, 22:17
Quote[/b] ]IIRC the Romans were doomed from the start. The Seleucid General had six stars while the Roman General had none.

I think the speech mentions how they are outnumbered, and they started downhill from the Seleucids.

When combined with the "non-deployment" of Romans it was game over before it even began.

I imagine when facing Elephants in numbers you should probably keep your pigs and archers up front to break up the charge when it begins, not afterwards.

Actually, the speech mentions how the enemy are outnumbered 4:1.

The thing is, those elephants were fast. Unless archers can finally lead, they'd probably miss anyway. :p

Aymar de Bois Mauri
05-18-2004, 22:34
Quote[/b] (Scipio @ May 18 2004,14:43)]If they make elephants historical they shouldnt be too hard to deal with;all you need, light inf, archers, slingers if tyou have them and the like as the front line, use them against the elephants... If you succed with this, think of it this way; you now have made I dunno 2 of his units void and unusable with little casualties on your side + their is a chance of the elephants to run into their own army causing fear, confusion and disorder http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Still sound like a super unit>? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Yes... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-tongue3.gif

SwordsMaster
05-18-2004, 22:41
Still think that PIGS shouldnt be overpowered. *Im cracking just by reading what I´ve written*.

Elephants should be more of a "side" unit.The battles still should be decided by Infantry.

And I hope pigs arent trained in large units....

son of spam
05-20-2004, 04:04
the more pigs the merrier

At least the units will be...unique.

ahh...finally special abilities besides armor piercing. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Mr Durian
05-20-2004, 05:58
Also elephants will be hopeless against long spike units like hoplites.

econ21
05-20-2004, 09:52
Interesting question - how, if at all, CA will limit the number of elephants.

In MTW SP, there seems to be no real way to limit the number of units. You can make the units small, but raising the cost does not seem to work - the player can usually afford to buy the best stuff.

Best you can do with the current system is can push them late up the tech tree and restrict the provinces that can build them, I guess.

I would not be averse to some "quotas" on units (eg no more than 2 units of elephants/praetorians/whatever per army) but that's not in TW SP at present (IIRC, is there are no more than 4 of X in MP? or maybe that's just a gamers convention).

The_Emperor
05-20-2004, 14:12
Quote[/b] ](IIRC, is there are no more than 4 of X in MP? or maybe that's just a gamers convention).

No its true, after the Fourth unit is paid for any more you buy after that increases the cost by a chunk.

Try it out in a Custom battle... Its true.