View Full Version : We need Online-Gamemaster
thats my idea...
we should have some trustworthy player wich become gamemasters, with some rigths...
example....they can close accounts for some days...
they can make others quite, so he cant write anything....
or they can make that u cant create a game, just join others...
i think we have to do something against this "kids"...always i come online i see the same guys use theyr "nice language"... if some newbies come online they must think thats the normal bahavior of our community...
i think we have to reakt hard and fast...
this ignore button isnt enoght!!
this situation isnt acceptable, just a few make this trouble and other think thats normal and do the same...
koc
------------------
Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)
I do agree...but this was needed 2 years ago not today...CA won't do anything else for STW.
However you can propose this in the Medieval forum...I am sure they will take a look at it Koc.
Tera
------------------
Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
This situation reminds me very much of kids today and their lack of respect. Alot of these kids have no discipline taught at home, therefore they have no respect for others in the wider community.
How I relate this is the Bad language should be stopped by clan leaders (for those in a clan)
This always worked for me while Daimyo of the Dreadmasters.
Whatever our faults were, while I was at the helm No member swore, flamed.
There were many times that we could have lost out tempers in the foyer, but we did not. Many other clans are like this too.
Any member found swearing for any reason will be ostricised.
I know not all are in clans but this is essentially a clan game. People that want to be in aclan will abide by this behaviour if they want to remain in a clan framework.
Clans should have a strict "NO SWEARING" policy that is upheld to the letter.
Those clans that don't, do not have any right to complain about others doing it.
Boromir...
------------------
"Let's hunt some Orc"
Not me http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif Respect gains respect http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Shame about the fouled mouth few. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif
Dionysus9
05-30-2002, 05:52
Players should not be punished for cultural differences:
Something I've noticed is that "swearing" is much more accepted by American players (indeed, by Americans in general). I think that any standards that develope have to be focused on EXTREME offense and not just mild curses.
Some people find the words "Hell" or "God" or even "Jehova" to be highly, HIGHLY, offensive. Culture has EVERYTHING to do with it.... example--When the Saxon's invaded england in (????)[im thinking 1340's?] they outlawed the term "shit" in favor of "excrament". For hundreds of years "shit" was acceptable, then the Saxons took over and overnight it was a punishable offense to speak in old-english. For some reason the taboo has stuck, and the English now consider "shit" to be foul and "excrament" to be proper.
Who is going to define all these proper/improper terms Kocmoc?
Hell, the Canadians even find "ass" to be offensive...always going on about "bums" instead.
I just dont know what is offensive anymore (other than racial epithets which is clear to me). Well I gotta go
Sorry if my language has offended anyone, I'm just talking history here.
Speaking about excrements...many Yankees are surnamed O'Hara. That's exactly the Maltese translation for "shit". http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Tera.
------------------
Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Krasturak
05-30-2002, 10:29
Some kind of control is desirable.
youssof_Toda
05-30-2002, 13:43
But who is going to control ur gamemaster? I like the idea of excersising some sort of control over the behavious in the foyer but how to do that? Ur idea would mean someone makes the laws, implements them and uses them to judge what he/she thinks is good/bad.
I prefer seperation of the trial politicas but would such a system be difficult?
we have various options:
-ur gamemaster
-sort of council (may prevent that the norms of only one man/woman become the standard)
-make sure everyone knows how to use the ignore command
-ignore the little twats without having to the use the ignore command
-humiliat the little kids by beating them in their own game without having to use bad language. ********* for instance responded good to my therapy but i decided to let professional ppl finish my work and told him to get a shrink. question for u remains if you want to drag u down to their level. i am already on that level http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif edited this post so that not some sort of ********* will get stressed when he sees this
[This message has been edited by youssof_Toda (edited 05-30-2002).]
I see the rise of Shoggy Fascism in here. First its an innocent, bright-eyed "gamemaster". Next thing you know, its a dictator ruling the foyer with an iron fist and curtailing basic inalienable rights left and right!
NinjaKilla
05-30-2002, 20:55
Bit extreme Vanya but I doubt we could all agree on a gamesmaster.
------------------
Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
I think that a game master would be a great idea! (I don´t really play on the internet just posting to gain ranks)
Dionysus9
05-31-2002, 00:46
Well, nobody seemed to get offended by my collegiate use of "curse" words. So I think its time for a hypothesis:
It isn't the words themselves that offend people, it is the spirit behind the words that is offensive.
And, because I belive my hypothesis is correct, how are we going to police the "spirit behind the words"? Are we going to have "thought police" who go around making sure everyone is friendly, polite, and respectful!? Well...maybe yes...
Tera seems to be good at filtering out some of the garbage that gets posted arond here, without seriously trampling on anyone's right to be heard (or to hear).
A council might be a good idea, or a group of moderators who make decisions by vote and accept proposals from us commoners
Anyway, I dont really care one way or the other--I have a thick skin.
Yagyu Jubei
05-31-2002, 00:51
The Gamemaster idea is a good one...but then think about the abuse this person would get...who would volunteer? I mean ho many times have we seen Eradosan and others flamed and cursed?
Unortunately I think the ignore function is really the best option.
------------------
Watashiwa Yagyu Jubei desu! Ganbate!
youssof_Toda
05-31-2002, 01:31
Like the idea about the thoughtpolice http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Jemasze Toda
05-31-2002, 01:38
...and again we have an interesting problem to solve here...
Do we need a gamemaster in control of the foyer and the forums?
Who might that be?
And more basic: Why did this call to have a gamemaster rise?
We are a community, a social group united in some common interest: We all like to have a forum and a possibility to dive into a fantastic world full of mighty warriors, great and heroic deeds and epic battles. In short: We all love to have fun and entertainment. Some, like myself even love to fight with words in the forum, thats part of their fun...hehe
As a consequence of that the strong wish to have some sort of control is understandable and represents a vital element:
We still ARE a community and have the will to stay one! There is life in here, which is good!
But of course it is always a problem to get so many different people - and from different cultures that is too!! - together. The usual misunderstandings, rivalries, different styles and languages, ways of thinkings, etc. are just signs of what a great task it is to be a society! And humans need society!!! Thats their evolutional advantage...hmm maybe also their fall? Maybe we need to become more antish ( more like ants or computers hehe) ? No controlling consciousness but instinctive auto-organisation? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Of course we have people in here too who are unfortunately severly limited in their mental capabilities or are just young of age and their idea of a verbal fight for example does not include a more inspirational language than:
"Your mother likes to eat shit and she sucks dicks all the time!" Yo! Here we have a true monster-mind!
Personally i can live with that and i very much agree with Youssof that the best way to deal with that is to join their games and make them quiet fast...
For example we all know that Castle 3D guy...hehe He deserves a medal for his endurance to host the same castle-game for such a long time, insulting the present players in the above mentioned way ( sign of his breath-taking capabilities) in order to force them to join and despite the vicious verbal attacks he earned for that. This dude was a joke! I found him funny, so i decided to join his game 4 times with different names.
The first assault on his castle i lost . It was a close game but his defence holded.. The next three games i won easily because this fellow tried the same poor trick in all games! Many other players did the same, they joined his game and some have beaten him well...so i heard. It doesn't matter that he escaped in some of his losses ( he didn't do that with me), the important thing is: can you still watch him hosting that castle-battle often? No? Is he still using his old name? No? Is he still babbling rubbish all the time in the foyer? No?
So thats the way of dealing with small-brains or kids. Its the same in the forum...
As i see it we don't need a "gamemaster" or anything institutional of that sort. But we certainly need to educate all the new players, that here we are a community of warriors. If you open your mouth to widely ( haha i know what i am talking of http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif ) somebody may take that as an invitation to come in........LOL
No gamemaster!! Vanya is right in his "drastic" language ( please more of that...)
To have true freedom means to have the will to self-responsibility!
Lets teach ourself to be self-responsible!
Some sort of constitution may help, (like the old "honour-society") but from my point of view we already have all what is neccessary to defend our community against any possible threath and also to develop and prosper:
We have great leaders such as Magyar Khan, the RageClan with MOnsta and Krast, we have Terazawa, MizuYuuki ( our chief-investigator), Vanya and all the other excellent people in here, we even have Kocmoc! who i love to attack and fight against both in the forum and on the field but who i at the same time respect very much for his undoubtly immense capability on the battlefield and the energy he puts into upholding our community!
The leaders shall lead! So is life....hehe
Remember who we are, al least in here:
SAMURAI !!! Warriors on their quest to become Shogun! ( or the best of the best...)
But in order to have good fights we need good opponents, we need challenges! And we need to make friendships, have treaties, show and live! faith, loyality and strength! We need to have "enemies" too!
We must teach ourselfes and our fellow Shoggies respect and the true meaning of being a warrior.
What does that mean: Being a warrior?
Self-responsibility, respect, strength, the capability to be loyal, but also the aspiration for power, the ambition to rule! If you have respect, you will never try to quieten everything else, to the contrary:
Rule someone must, but in order to keep the ability to develop and change he needs competition! A true warrior ins in constant need of great "enemies", because otherwise he could not be a SAMURAI!
The Shogun is the first of equals! All have the will to power but all recognize the one with the greatest will as their leader! I can only recognize a great will to power if i have a will to power myself!
Life is will to power ( hehe) and nothing else! ( Wille zur Macht!)
yours Jemasze
Tankdogg123
05-31-2002, 02:07
I know a game which deals with this problem great. But I don't think it would be in my interests to tell you lol.
youssof_Toda
05-31-2002, 02:53
damn jem it's not about the size of ur post it's what you do with it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Jemasze Toda
05-31-2002, 12:02
LOL Youssof!
As always:
Greetings from a time long ago and from a galaxy far, far away....
Hehe i should quit talking so much!
Errrrrrrrrmmmmm.......no! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
yours Jemasze
Krasturak
05-31-2002, 21:18
It would be fairly easy to put this into practice. An anonymous authority with an email address for contact, access to the database holding the CD-codes and name registration along with a recording of the text signals sent through the server could respond to complaints and exert control with only a small time-commitment each week.
This would benefit the community by giving people who suffer from harrassment and threats a formal process to resolve those problems.
Currently people who are engaged in deliberately destructive communication through the game server have a free hand.
Although you seem to think that moral suasion is sufficient to correct this sort of thing, Krast disagrees.
A Satan worshipper still has the right to practice his faith. Its called freedom of religion. Its irrelevant that the puritan majority think it is "vile" or "evil" or "sinful". Its their right. And its the puritans' right to think it as "evil" if they choose to do so.
So too is the freedom of speech/expression. A flamer has the same right to vent his verbal storm, even if the next guy thinks its "garbage", "harassing", or "inflamatory". A gamemaster amounts to censorship. Its purpose, as you have described, is to censor free speech. A gamemaster should only make sure the game is up and running for all to enjoy. Censorship should never be his prerogative.
What next? Put Utah's Porn Czar -- that self-proclaimed 40-year old virgin that classifies "Cosmopolitan" as hardcore pornography -- as gamemaster?!? I bet NOBODY would say a word then! Would youz like that? Who would play Shoggy then?
GAH! Wait a minute! NOBODY WOULD PLAY! We'd all be banned because Shoggy "portrays and glorifies violence" and is therefore a "corrupting" force twisting our innocent youths (pronounces Yutes) into perverted, predatorial agents of evil as a direct result of their "virtual sinning"!
GAH!
[Sips sake, eats popcorn]
[This message has been edited by Vanya (edited 05-31-2002).]
youssof_Toda
06-01-2002, 00:38
hmmmm i like the idea of Krast the guy could use a filter to get the relevent texsts on screen and judge weather or not it is appropriate. as for freedom of speech: ur freedom ends where the freedom of others begins. sure we all agree that death threats and continuing harassement of ppl is not acceptable and the "judge" could remove their cd keys.
Dionysus9
06-01-2002, 01:12
Well, Youssouf, Krast's simple approach might work if the games is pucharsed Holland...but the legal implications for the American purchasers of the game get pretty complicated. Im not saying the American system is any better than the Dutch system (they both have big problems).
First of all, there are some rights that are so fundamental they dont "end where anothers begins". My right to life, for example, doesn't end just because you also have a right to life. My right to speach, also, does not end where your right to speach begins. We can both speak at the same time--I have no right to be heard by you.
Second, in the USA, the right of free speach only guarantees that the GOVERNMENT will not stop you from speaking. It doesn't apply to speaking in someones house, or on corporate servers for that matter. So, technically, EA could regulate the speach content of its servers...but there is a catch-- If they were to "revoke" my CD key for something they "think" is offensive, I would probably have a lawsuit against them for 1) Breach of Contract; 2) Theft of my CD Key (i.e., stealing the property I paid for).
The fact is, that contract and property law are firmly entrenched in western culture (i.e. Holland too). When I slap down my 19.99 to by Shogun, I agree to a contract w/EA. Just look in your documentation (in the back) its in there somewhere. [I dont have it w/ me, I'm at work]. When I get home I will read through that contract and see what it says about EA revoking CD Key's for "offensive" language use on the server. My guess is that it doesnt lay out any guidelines for what constitutes "offensive" language. (I could be wrong though). Even if it says we can be kicked off of multi-player for "abusive language and rude comments as determined by EA", there is still a requirement that the determination by EA is "reasonable and in good faith."
Anyway, you get the idea-- it is not a small thing to revoke someones CD Key-- it is their property, they paid for it. You cant just say, "I dont like the way you smell, I'm taking your car." And you cant just say "I don't like what you just said, I'm taking your CD key."
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Who among you is enlightened enough to judge the thoughts/speach of another person?!
I dont want the job.
youssof_Toda
06-01-2002, 01:32
hmmm ur partialy right there but one thing: when you buy the game you don't jst buy the software but also a licence to use it. EA can at any time withdraw ur licence if you violate the rules of that licence and if they would even care. (at least that's how it is according to me but i'm not interested in holding a discussion bout the legal system here) in the end it's jst about a little group of twats who r ruining cuz they scare newcomers away.
Dionysus9
06-01-2002, 01:52
You are right Youssouf, I went overboard on the legal discussion. And I agree w/ you on the bottom line.
I think we need to hire some real shinobi to go to work on those little farts.
Jemasze Toda
06-01-2002, 02:17
Good posts!
What i have difficulties to understand is though, why don't we simply lead the newcomers/small brains/kids into the direction we want?
If someone makes trouble and cannot be ignored make fun of him! Make him ( or her ) feel uncomfortable! Beat him on the battlefield so soundly that he either dissapears after a short while or adapts to the way of the SAMURAI! (hehe)
The idiot either becomes a warrior himself ( with all the above mentioned virtues) or he gets "killed" fast and effective in the forum, the foyer and on the battlefield.
I have no problem at all to attack someone very hard (verbally) in the foyer if i see him insulting other people too aggressivly.
If he thinks he can hit us with "dickhead" or any baby-talk like that, demonstrate him what a hit "below the belt" really means....
And after that talk friendly to him...that works more often than not, i assure you...
Hey! I know there is no such thing as an easy solution, but we have to try nevertheless hehe
yours Jemasze
hmmmmmmmm some may like it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif
Im not sure that is the correct way to go....
Krasturak
06-01-2002, 04:37
From my point of view, the operators of the server have an obligation to protect me and the other users from harrassment.
As it stands, I have no channel available to pursue my greivances .... unless there's something I'm missing.
Dionysus9
06-01-2002, 06:53
Well, Krast, I'm playing devil's advocate here.
To what extent does EA's have an obligation to protect you from harrassment? If someone makes a death-threat on the server, does EA have an obligation to dispatch body-guards to Ontario to protect you? To investigate the criminal history of the person making the threats? What is harrassment anyway? Who defines it?
Ok, point made, enough devils advocate. Now for real discussion:
In the final analysis, who suffers most from a crappy/unwholesome/annoying server-culture?
Maybe you say the STW fans do...thats probably true, but our answer should be that EA suffers the most. They lose our respect, admiration, loyalty, and desire to purchase their products. They lose STW sales too.
The real issue, seems to me, is that EA doesn't really care about the profitability/success of Total War.
Ultimately, EA should be motivated to have a fun server where we all feel welcome-- based on profitability alone.
It seems to me that EA has never really given two squats about STW or MI/WE for that matter. It's almost as if they wrote off the project as a failure from the beginning (which is strange to me because the game has so much potential).
Perhaps it is a matter of Wargames v. Sportsgames. Maybe EA feels like alienating Wargamers will not effect their profits (since most of their games are sports related). I personally dont worry much about people cursing or flaming on the server. But its another symptom of EA's lack of support and commitment for STW and MI/WE-- a lack of support that has been evident from day one.
I cant tell you how glad I am that EA handed MTW off to another company. This way I dont have to buy anything else from them.
Krasturak
06-01-2002, 13:45
Quote Originally posted by Dionysus9:
To what extent does EA's have an obligation to protect you from harrassment? [/QUOTE]
I have no idea what their legal obligations are. I also have no idea of the sovereign jurisdiction that applies in cases like this. But it seems to me that there is a responsibility on their part to allow me the use of the product I purchased without encountering threats ...
don't you agree?
Dionysus9
06-04-2002, 02:57
Hmmm, I dont know if I do Krast. I'm not necessarily talking legally, but just philosophically.
Lets say you buy a fur coat from Alaskan Fur Co. The next day you get mobbed by Anti-Fur activists and your nose is broken (not to mention your fur coat is ruined). Is that Alaskan Fur's fault?
Ok, now lets get sinister. You sign up for one of those "matchmaking services"...send in your name, phone number, hobbies, etc. They set you up with someone whom you email several times, and talk on the phone with. Seems like a normal person, so you go out on a date. The person freaks out and breaks your nose. Is that the matchmaking service's fault?!
Or someone calls you on the phone and threatens you. Is that the phone company's fault?
Or you buy STW and you are playing online and someone threatens you. Is that EA's fault?
I'm not saying it is or isnt.
The risk we run in shifting blame to the "facilitators" (i.e. EA's server, the phone company) for acts of the "idiots" is that eventually no facilitators will take the risk that an idiot might hurt you. Matchmaking services will shut down, you wont be able to by fur coats, and the phone company wont service your house.
Who knows when the next idiot may strike? Or even how many there are out there....let alone how to control them?
Unfortunately, it seems like these little runts are just part of the risk of social internet interaction. It seems to me that the only people we can truly blame are the idiots themselves.
Mithrandir
06-04-2002, 03:01
Lets say you buy a fur coat from Alaskan Fur Co. The next day you get mobbed by Anti-Fur activists and your nose is broken (not to mention your fur coat is ruined). Is that Alaskan Fur's fault?
->Yes
Ok, now lets get sinister. You sign up for one of those "matchmaking services"...send in your name, phone number, hobbies, etc. They set you up with someone whom you email several times, and talk on the phone with. Seems like a normal person, so you go out on a date. The person freaks out and breaks your nose. Is that the matchmaking service's fault?!
->Yes
Or someone calls you on the phone and threatens you. Is that the phone company's fault?
->Yes
Or you buy STW and you are playing online and someone threatens you. Is that EA's fault?
->Yes
I'm not saying it is or isnt.
The risk we run in shifting blame to the "facilitators" (i.e. EA's server, the phone company) for acts of the "idiots" is that eventually no facilitators will take the risk that an idiot might hurt you. Matchmaking services will shut down, you wont be able to by fur coats, and the phone company wont service your house.
Who knows when the next idiot may strike? Or even how many there are out there....let alone how to control them?
Unfortunately, it seems like these little runts are just part of the risk of social internet interaction. It seems to me that the only people we can truly blame are the idiots themselves.
->Yes
Fix all ye want. In the end, they will just come out with a better idiot. And, as with all things, the next generation will be more exagerated than its predecessor. And all your hard work will have been for nothing, but your angst will soar to new heights...
GAH!
Krasturak
06-04-2002, 05:31
It isn't a question of blame.
It's an issue of responsibility.
If you don't understand the difference, Krast cannot help you.
Jemasze Toda
06-04-2002, 12:36
Agreed, Krast.
It IS an issue of responsibility...
SELF-responsibility that is from my point of view!
Vanja is right: We won't be able to completly prevent sad little boys from turning their unwanted attention to our tiny community, SoSome of the worst ones get wet-dreams when sending virusses to many of us.
Poor fellows...they have no social life, they never touched a woman when not paying for that ( huh! Maybe not even that!), can't get it up properly, they have no friends in real life, smell badly and soso on. To come to a conclusion: They have NO real life at all!
Hehe i admit, i am an online- weirdo too, otherwise i wouldn't have to talk so much, but there are worst people out there, believe me....... LOL
Just ignore them! If that is not possible fight them! That means self-responsibility in these circumstances: Do it yourself, no gamemaster can help here...he may even make it worse! We ave enough great warriors to cope with idiots and laughable little boys, of course only to a certain degree.
This is only a virtual world, the real life takes place when we switch the computer off...hehe
We have to life and cope with psychos ourself, there is no alternative!
If you like, form a council of warriors, ín order to coordinate counter-attacks...
best wishes
yours Jemasze
a disillusionized fool
youssof_Toda
06-04-2002, 15:55
think about this: you have to right on a properly functioning product. in fact when you purchased stw you also bought the license to use the game for online play, you paid for the server which is being made available by EA. now if i pay for a certain service i have the right that the service is performed correctly. when i buy a car i can be more or less certain that it functions safely (and YES there are somethimes rare exceptions but then it is the obligation of the producer to fix them). ofcourse you can argue about the standard here but my point (and i think of most ppl here) is that we have to ban the excesses like death threats or continuing harassment.
Over here we run a Half-Life server... GAH! (I know, I know... the SACRILEGE!) But, there is a tool whereby you can swap out flamers and cheaters so that whenever they type something out, it will either be cut off and not shown, or will be replaced with an admin-supplied text like "I am a loser" or something. It requires something like an admin or a "gamemaster" though...
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
Why not just make a Hall of Flame, and post the heads of flamers and abusers there? Sure it goes against the 'no-naming' thingie here... But it would be OK as long as there was a recourse available to getting the name removed... You could even feature a daily 'special' called "In the Pot with Krast", where the latest head soup is made with the heads of flamers...
Dionysus9
06-04-2002, 22:34
Ha! I like Vanya's suggestion re: "In the Pot w/ Krast". That wouold be great fun and a good way to vent some frustration. The problem (which Vanya foresee's) is the potential for abuse.
Otherwise, the idea of the word swapping program might do the trick if it applied equally to all people (i.e. anytime "shit" is typed, it comes out "I'm a foul-mouthed potty-head".) I'm afraid that it could be easily circumvented though. Sh1t. Fvck. You get the idea--the programers would have to get pretty darn devious to stop all abuses.
I suppose it would be nice if EA took some responsibility here, but they obviously aren't going to...(and don't feel legally obligated to), so its really up to the little jerks to knock it off themselves.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.