View Full Version : Why do I do better online
Seems odd to me that I do much better online than against the A.I. Because it seems most people say that the comp is way to easy and I play it normal dificulty. Well some of the things I do'nt do is I do'nt sucker the A.I. off of a hill Of course when there done chasing my routing units I do'nt show any mercy with 16 completelty fresh reenforcements and they abandonded there hill position exhausting themselves. I do'nt try to attack the comp over a bridge as it usually ends up in the comp being the attacker and they just get slaughtered. What my biggest problem is when the comp attacks with all 16 units at once. I'm only human and can do only so many commands at once where as the comp is taking all of its units engaging them while doing flanking maneuvers. Even though I usually have the better army and taking stars into account I still have big problems as by the time I'm in position for a flanking maneuver half my guys are routing and the flank attack becomes worthless as the unit they were gonna flank is now no longer engage or chasing that unit. I find that pause button soooo gay as it takes out the intensity of the battle but also think it is dumb the A.I can nail 1 of my units in the back if its just standing there but you ca.nt do the same to the comp because as soonas you target that unit it turns around. Of course my favorite is the unplanned feigned retreat they end up routing half my units usually in the center and then they rally and there army ends up being surrounded on 3 sides ending in a masive slaughter. I occasioally see the opportunity to route units myself and this suckers there cavary in big time but this is only on occasions. Of course I think I can have hope with RTW as from the time commadanders video it seems engaging all your units early and the enemy has reserves you have just handed the battle field to the enemy and risk being completely surrounded as troops move in. Of course the big thing I wonder about this is who was controlling the morale of the units, there could have been some operators off in another room controlling when a unit should rout but if it was computer controlled I am highly impressed. ( but the Persians always seemed the ones prone to a chain route from the videos) One thing I do though because usually I end up as the defender is I do'nt just sit there as he/she is getting into position I readjust my line to make it hard for him/her to see where to focus his troops and this seems to instigate a rush from his army who get tied up in the skirmishers while the real troops do there work. The other thing is I make sure there is enough valour in my troops for the morale, so in multiplayer its harder to make a chain route as I have quite a few V3 troops compared to single player where they are likely to have less morale
When you fight the computer, the key is to split up its army. It doesn't understand the whole surrounding thing. Just pick off units. It even voluntarily splits up eg if you try to pav duel w/ it, it moves its pavs up but nothing else and kind of rotates units at the front. Just take every opportunity you can to skirmish w/ it. It may be faster, but you're smarter, and do things for reasons besides being programmed to do them.
Online battles do progress at a slower rate so there is more time for maneuvers. Part of the fun is skirmishing and trying to arrange a favorable alignment of your forces.
The AI doesn't sit around and diddle with these things, he just charges everybody at you. He may spend some effort to do some flanking too, but he doesn't waste any time doing it. The whole wave just sort of arrives at once. If you are not prepared for the suddenness of the AI then you will lose. I usually speed the time up until the AI is about half way across the map. Then I start looking at his alignment and try to build in a counter alignment of my troops. Occassionally my guys don't finish lining up until too late and I lose some troops but usually I am pretty good at having things setup and then having each of my units charge their proper opponent.
Obviously horse cav are a different issue and can sometimes lead to disaster because I spent too much time worrying about them and not enough time on my other troops. It is a rare event if I just form a shield line and wait for the AI. I much prefer to charge and try to control the matchups. Obviously I lose those sometimes, but I can usually recover by using my cav effectively.
Your position in the battle, ie whether you're attacking or defending against the computer, has a huge affect on the battle. My scenario was assuming you were attacking. If you're defending, as Satyr said, it pretty much just rushes you. This is where you get to practice manuvering units and shift the 'weight' of your army by making one side a little light just to hold, then using the other heavier side to flank and start a rout.
solypsist
05-19-2004, 02:14
this is an unusual observation, since most people who do well against the ai tend to get slaughtered in multiplayer
Quote[/b] (solypsist @ May 19 2004,09:14)]this is an unusual observation, since most people who do well against the ai tend to get slaughtered in multiplayer
I second you on that commend soly. I have seen new players claim that they had done exceptionally well against the AI and end up bring only 8 beefed up units in the MP battle. Well, you can guess the results, a massacre is imminent http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif
The thing is though, you can really kick the comp's ar$e using the same online strats. You just have to realise it's programmed, notice its trends and work against them. I think the beefed up units work better for non-mulitplayers, because the computer doesn't try to surround. So, a few units that will hold well, because the comp doesn't try to break morale, will iventually break the more numerous but worse troops by breaking the morale of the ai.
not that true though.
The AI almost never goes for the center or tries to hit your line as much as humans but instead seem to focus upon routing one unit, then another by focusing on them and trying to initiate a chain rout.
THus, they do work like crazy with morale.
It just attacks the unit, doesn't surround. Humans don't hit the center of the inf line. That's why I typically put weak units there. You'll have to forgive me about the comp attacking one unit though. It's been awhile since I've played the comp.
Edit: Katank sounds like he knows the comp and game comp better than I, so his advice may be better. Also, Cheetah (I think) has been known to do some really crazy stuff against the comp, so talk to him and katank if you can.
well, they do surround and attack.
I've had 4 princely RKs and several viking units all gang up on a lone byz inf on the flank and I was only saved by the hold hold formation as well as my byz inf haivng twisted himself into a weird pretzel shape earlier and he actually won
with a little help by treb archer volleys though.
I personally have punched through AI's centers many times with strong cav and then swords.
if your center caves, you are usually screwed.
I personally think it's a viable tactic provided you can push back flanks and not get enveloped.
punch through center and then rear attack usually spells instant rout.
Quote[/b] ]if your center caves, you are usually screwed.
sometimes i don`t mind if the AI splits my centre, while it is busy forcing units through the middle of my formation i can usually swing round on both flanks and hit them from the rear.
on such occasions the whole battle can rotate 180 degrees in a few minutes.
below, is very styilised representation of the tactic (sorry about the graphics), it`s never as cleanly done as this on the battlefeld (it usually looks like a total mess to be honest), but this should explain things a bit better.
as the enemy "^" punches through the centre of the formation (and chases a routed "R" unit or two) rotate the units on both sides of the breach so that their flanks are coveed (so that you are REFUSING your units on both sides of the breach) pull them back and let the enemy flow through.
R
R R
\ ^ /
] ^ [ G
/ ^ \
======= ^^^ =======
^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
this is the next step; while keeping the units on both sides of the breach under control(don`t attack with them yet) swing both flanks round to encircle them from the rear, now you order every unit except A&B to attack and watch the slaughter.
A&B should be held back to tackle any units that try to attack your envelopment.
R
R
_^_
A\ ^^^ /B
] ^^^ [
/ ^^^ \
/ ^^^^^ \
\ ^^^^^^ /
=== ===
G
i try to keep the general "G" out of direct combat in this situation as his loss usually means that my army routs straight away. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Well Katank has some very good points that I have noticed. Some of the battles I win quite easily but some end up as a massacre for me. It seems to me the comps goal is a chain rout. It seems their heavy units of cavalry are the key to there victories. Seems the comp is so suicidal with them that even though they won the battle the war is over for them because they recklessy used there best units for a vicrory on a piece of land they will not be able to hold for long. My worst is the 16 unit mob coming all at once and the worst is where I'm attacking and all the spearmen are on 1 flank and the swords on the other. Usually this happens when the comp has a bunch of crap units under a high star commander wich I think is total BS mainly due to the fact I was'nt able to deploy my units before battle. Occassionally I just withdraw from the battle because I see the A.I. is holding a good position on a hill and the losses are'nt worth the victory of trying to overun a position.
I agree with katar and sometimes will let my center get pushed back for the pincer type maneuver.
what I meant was when you are trying to flank and then your center caves.
this means that the Ai can swing around to stop your flanking forces with their wings and also your forces are now completely detached.
when you center caves involuntarily is the situation that is sticky.
as for enemy heavy cav, I never found them that strong.
militia or swords in woods takes care of them well.
the AI usually only have their royals as their heavy cav and the only factions without balanced swords units (muslims) can hold them with spears and apply naptha from behind.
I'm always shocked at how well naptha take down RKs and the like.
When ever I've seen the comp actually surround someone, it was not for the purpose to surround. It was, because it just had the units there and attacked in the closest line to that unit. If you keep straight, it will just pile units, which is very, very stupid. All you have to do is bring two units of chiv knights to the back of them, and they'll rout like that, on any difficulty.
yep, I've seen the AI pile plenty of times.
missiles work well too.
maybe that's why protected missiles are so powerful against the AI as they pile up against a spear wall and gets slaughtered.
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