Multiplayer questions

[R'as al Ghul]

Hi all

First I'd like to apologize to Mimesaka for being such a pathetic opponent last night. On the other hand I think there's no dishonour in loosing against such a superior player. Thank you for the games. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif
Secondly thanks to all the guys in the foyer who took me by the hand from day one. You know who you are.
I'm still learning how this game works in MP. (It's more difficult then Medieval imo)
So I thought I'd ask a few questions here:


1. Naginata Cavalry
Do they have a rank bonus? It seems that most of the time my V4NagCav looses against others.
I can only explain this to myself by assuming that there is a rank bonus. I have the habit to deploy Cav in 2 lines. In Medieval this maximizes the impact. The flanks wrap around the enemys and inflict penalties. Very effective. Now if I do that in Shogun they get minced.

2.Yari Cavalry
How much valour do they need to stand against/ win against V4Naginata Cav?
Is this possible at all? I read somewhere that the YariCav is considered AntiCav.

2. Muskets
How do you adjust their position?
If I want to shift the position in the musket line (rearrange/ regroup) the unit always turns one flank to the enemy (wheeling into march-direction). This shortens the distance to the enemys musket line and inflicts penalties. Is it possible to move them in a different fashion?

That's it for now.

Kind regards http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif

R'as al Ghul / Itto Nakamura

[Puzz3D]

No rank bonus for naginata cav or any other unit type in WE/MI. Unlike MTW most of the power of cav in WE/MI is in its charge. That's why the wrap around is less effective. It's important to execute very clean charges in WE/MI. The tactics are razor sharp when compared to MTW's mushy RPS, and the game speed is much higher in WE/MI which means you have to react more quickly to threats.

Yari cav gets a +4 combat bonus vs non-yari cav: cav archer, naginata cav and heavy cav. It's balanced so that yari-cav will defeat naginata cav at equal honor. They easily beat cav archers, but will loose to heavy cav at equal honor. However, heavy cav is often fielded at lower honor than yari cav, so in practice they often do quite well especially if you can hit the heavy cav's flank. The yari cav is the fastest cav and can catch cav archers. Therefore, you have an RPS system right in the cav units in addition to the RPS in the infantry units, and the RPS of the combined cav and inf. The main flaw in this whole system is that muskets came out too strong in v1.02, and thus naginata cav and heavy cav have trouble charging them which they were supposed to be able to do by design. This is fixed in the unofficial v1.03. The naginata cav was supposed to be the frontal assault cav with the yari cav being the flanking cav when used against inf, but due to the strong guns you really have to look to flank with all cav types.

You can make units side step in WE/MI over a greater distance than in MTW. Just hold ALT and click directly to the side of the unit's center. I forget just how far you can get units to side step before they wheel.

[R'as al Ghul]

Hi Puzz3D,

thx for the input. I knew some of the things but as you said "tactics are razorsharp" and there's no room for mistakes.

Since I field my YariCav with H3 it's really no surprise that i loose against H4NagCav.
So I've to change that and put the NagCav into deeper ranks since "the wrap" doesn't work.

I'll try the sidestepping of units but since I mostly use my clicks in combination with the alt key I'm a bit confused here. I've to test that and see if I clicked wrong in game.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif

[Puzz3D]

Try moving shorter distances until you find the point at which the units don't wheel.

The H0 YC is 15/1/2 (charge/att/def) and the H0 NC is 11/4/1, but the YC will be getting +4 att in this matchup. If we compare with the yari bonus included, H3 YC is 15/8/5 and H4 NC is 11/8/5. The 4 extra charge of the YC is worth approximately 1 melee point. Therefore, summing the melee combat points and giving YC that effective +1 from the higher charge gives H3 YC = 14 and H4 NC = 13. That's a 1 point or 20% advantage to the YC with a well executed charge and countercharge by the NC. That should get the YC 6 or 7 wins out of every 10 encounters except the lower morale of the YC may cause it to rout before it wins. Of course, if only one of the cav units charges, the advantage will shift dramatically to the charging unit (every 4 points of charge equaling approx 1 melee point) and it should win 10 out of 10 encounters since a 2 melee point advantage will win 9 out of 10 times.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I find that in practice the low morale will almost always result in the yc routing, or that the difficulty in getting the charge bonus will mean they don't win the h2h.

I enjoyed the games to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif

[R'as al Ghul]

Quote[/b] (Shinano @ May 18 2004,21:59)]I enjoyed the games too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif

You're too kind Mimesaka-dono.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif

[Mori Zennousha]

Quote[/b] ]I'll try the sidestepping of units but since I mostly use my clicks in combination with the alt key I'm a bit confused here. I've to test that and see if I clicked wrong in game.


Konnichiwa, R'as al Ghul...

listen, i noticed that this part of your post hadn't been addressed yet, so here's my $.02... ALT + Click will do several things, but i don't think you should use as often as it sounds like you are... for example, if you select missile troops (archers, musks, cav archers, etc) and then ALT + Click on the enemy, they will attack in melee mode (hand-to-hand) rather than with thier primary missile weapon, which certainly is not desirable unless yo have no other choice... also, when moving any unit on the battlefield, ALT + Click will cause them kepp keep the same facing they had where they started... in other words, they'll be facing the same direction when they arrive at the new location... as Puzz3D stated, if you move them a little bit at a time, they'll sidestep... but even if they wheel around, they'll wheel back when they get where you sent them... sometimes, that's what you want; sometimes it isn't... the more you play, the better of a feel you'll get for when to use different techniques for moving your troops around...

hope this helps a bit,
Z

[R'as al Ghul]

Quote[/b] (Mori Zennousha @ May 19 2004,14:08)]Konnichiwa, R'as al Ghul...

ALT + Click will do several things, but i don't think you should use as often as it sounds like you are... for example, if you select missile troops (archers, musks, cav archers, etc) and then ALT + Click on the enemy, they will attack in melee mode (hand-to-hand) rather than with thier primary missile weapon, which certainly is not desirable unless yo have no other choice...
Konnichiwa Mori Zennousha,

I appreciate all comments but I had to laugh at parts of yours. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
That is because I obviously made myself sound more stupid than I really am. I didn't mean to say I was "always" holding down alt when clicking but I have to admit that I use it frequently and find it convenient (alt-right to change facing, alt-left to maintain facing while moving). Now alt-left clicking my muskets to charge is surely not recommended. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif
The part about the sidestepping came out of a standard situation: two lines of muskets shooting another, I had the feeling that one of my units should be standing more to the right or left. Now, If you alt-left click them to a few meters right/ left of their position they wheel into march direction, thereby bringing their flank very near to the enemys line.
In MTW this works without wheeling into march direction.

Anyway, thanks for your help and making me laugh at myself on a boring workday.

Cheers,

R'as

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I've always found click and drag to be easier personally.

[pdoan8]

Sidestep:

IICR Alt left click will also allow you to click over the formation same way as Shift click (but Shift click doesn't maintain facing). So you can make small step left/right/back. Just alt left click on the men left/right/behind of the guy holding the unit flag.

Small adjustment won't cause the unit to wheel. I was able to make a single line of musket to turn and march in single column to new destination then turn to form a single line again. The new destination was mid point from the center men to one end of the line. More than that may cause unit to wheel slightly.

Edit: if you want to redraw formation, hold down eithe Shift or Alt while drawing out new formation will allow you to draw over the existing formation