Byz Strat alternatives

[Obadiah]

Playing the Byz, (Early-Hard). Around 1130. I've conquered as far south as Egypt, north to a rough front of approx Croatia- Wallachia- Kiev- Khazar.

Now what? I've never played Biz before, and want to avoid moving West against Europe which would expose my back to the Horde (dreaded 2-front war). I'm thinking of halting my expansion into Hungary-Poland-Russian Steppes and instead retrenching to defend Georgia and prov's to its south while advancing my attacks accross N Africa, Spain, etc. Or, simply balls ahead, and hope to complete the conquest before H shows on the scene. If I don't complete the conquest, I'll be spread too thin to mount a decent defense, and could be toast in no time.

Advice?

[Bezalel]

Personally, I would push into the moors and maybe spain/aragon. You should be able to do it quickly enough that loyalty would be good by the time the horde comes, so you could bottleneck Spain w/ a large force, and put the majority of the rest by khazar. Comp shouldn't be much trouble on hard, so just play out all the battles if you start to get outnumbered.

[Obadiah]

Yea, that's what i was thinking.

Also, what kind of army would you build to prepare for the Horde???

[Cebei]

Dont confront them in Khazar, leave them some room for expansion, which will divide their forces.. Keep Volyhinia as your defensive line as it attracts some fine mercs. Then let the horde bash begin. Let them expand through all all asia till volyhina and then deal with them.

[Kristaps]

Build tons of pavise arbalesters supported by varangian guards: with a high star general you can annihilate the horde in year 1... It will be a long battle though :)

Tha's if you want to take them on in the field. An alternative: build Citadels + Barbicans in Khazar and Georgia. Load them up with varangian guards (preferably some mercenary halberdiers if available) in 1230: once the horde arrives, let them take the provinces and storm your Citadels (which they invariably do...). Boom, the horde is gone a year after: once you clean up the remains from their failed Citadel storms. :)

P.S. I personably prefer the Citadel cleanup alternative. I hate to deal with horde's horse archers. Have done it a few times and that's enough :)

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Strat alternatives? Try a Les Paul. Ibanez are good as well. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Obadiah]

Ha Strat (post-CBS) really is without alternatives. Unless you play accoustic

[Obadiah]

Kristaps, Cebei, thanks. Figured there's be quite a wealth of experience on this issue

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Quote[/b] (Obadiah @ May 18 2004,21:57)]Ha Strat (post-CBS) really is without alternatives. Unless you play accoustic
If it's good enough for Hendrix...

[Cebei]

Quote[/b] (Big King Sanctaphrax @ May 18 2004,15:54)]Strat alternatives? Try a Les Paul. Ibanez are good as well. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
ROFL, hey I'm actually getting a 7 string universe, and selling my strat.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

The question being, can you play like Vai? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

At least you didn't buy the MASSIVELY overpriced K7.

[Cebei]

Quote[/b] (Big King Sanctaphrax @ May 18 2004,16:30)]The question being, can you play like Vai? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

At least you didn't buy the MASSIVELY overpriced K7.
Well the question for me is whether I will play like Satriani than like Vai (why go for less when you got Vai's teacher http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )...

I dont yet have the guitar.. I can find it for 1500$ in the US, the same guitar is 4000$ in Turkey http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif I will sell my original stratocaster for 1400$ (originally 1500 euros here) and add 100$.

I hope it turns out to be as awesome as I predicted.. Cause if its not, I will kill myself for not getting a reasonable RG1527 Prestige 7 string for 600$.

[katank]

in response to original question.

I like fortress storm in khazar and georgia.

if they makes it past that, defend if kiev bridge battle.

use byz inf+ varangians to hold the bridge.

merc italian inf or other heavy spears are better though.

use 6+ pav arbs along the banks to shoot them up.

add some catapults to add to the slaughter.

also, napthas can work wonders.

you may also be able to get merc organ guns etc.

once I was able to have a merc italian inf and two organ guns.

I set the italian inf as a plug and the organ guns in a crossfire at the bridge head with 3 napthas behind the italians inf.

the khan led a glorious charge of MHC only to disappear in one huge poof.

my pav arbs then mauled their units stuck trying to cross the bridge and bouncing catapult shots sure kill a lot when bouncing through furballs of the horde.

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (katank @ May 18 2004,21:12)]in response to original question.
I like fortress storm in khazar and georgia.
if they makes it past that, defend if kiev bridge battle.
use byz inf+ varangians to hold the bridge.
merc italian inf or other heavy spears are better though.
use 6+ pav arbs along the banks to shoot them up.
add some catapults to add to the slaughter.
also, napthas can work wonders.
you may also be able to get merc organ guns etc.
once I was able to have a merc italian inf and two organ guns.
I set the italian inf as a plug and the organ guns in a crossfire at the bridge head with 3 napthas behind the italians inf.
the khan led a glorious charge of MHC only to disappear in one huge poof.
my pav arbs then mauled their units stuck trying to cross the bridge and bouncing catapult shots sure kill a lot when bouncing through furballs of the horde.

Yup, this is sound advice. Personally I´d build the maximum fortifications in Khazar, Georgia and Armenia (they can appear there too). You have 100 years to do this and since it will only take some 60 years to build up to a fortress plus a couple of years to add towers and such you have ample of time. Also don´t build anything else but money upgrades in theese provs since the mongols will benefit from them since their army composition is effected on what upgrades you have in thoose attacked provs.
Once I slaughtered 8000 mongols with my fortress in Khazar just defended by 600 varangians inside the gate, he he
Good luck

[TheSilverKnight]

Kataphraktoi, Byz. Infantry, Lots of Archers in Georgia and the Crimea, also in Trebizond, Armenia, and Edessa. The Horde tends to emerge in those provinces. Push into Spain and then consolidate Italy, so Rome can be your base if you lose Constantinople.

[katank]

Don't think losing the golden, eternal city of Const. is even an option.

hint: have troops in Trebizond, Kiev, etc where you can move them in to defend and only keep minimal forces in where the horde can appear as the horde is bigger if you have more and better troops there.

also, if you enable artillery towers to be buildable without gunpowder, then it's possible to hold off the horde. I did so in khazar as my own 600 gold-gold joms held off the horde in the fortress and beat off two assaults before they were relieved.

they almost starved to death though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif before I could bust them out.

use treb archers and brigands to complement your pav arbs.

these archer units are capable in melee and are better for dueling mongol warriors and HAs than the arbs who should be exclusively focused on MHC.

go less cav heavy as you can't beat the mongols at cav.

instead, go with heavy inf like upgrade varangians/huscarles and have them screen the archers units who can really kill.

[King Edward]

I like to keep a few units of lighter cav with me as chasing horse archers around the map can be a little tedious at times. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif Spears and longbows are the way forward though (and kerns can mess up mongol heavy cav if they have a decent valour)

[katank]

I don't agree with light cav vs. GH as their MHC will slaughter your lgight cav and you can't do anything.

far better to use merc longbows and arbs as well as arty to outrange them and shoot them to bits.

get some polearms and advanced spears that can sit out the missile storm as the plug.

I usually fight them in kiev so there's always plugs for the bridges.

I find it useful to keep the gneral close behind the plug units to give morale boost so they are less likely to rout but this also sometimes puts him at risk of missile fire.

[Obadiah]

Katank - "600 gold-gold joms" = ??????

[katank]

I modded in Jomsvikings from the Viking map and made them available with sword shop and armor shop.

I built up sweden to have gold armor, gold weapons and faced down the horde with 600 of those boys.

They held the fortress against two GH assaults and the GH lost so many men to the fully upgraded fortress in khazar that it wasn't even funny.

my heroes almost starved to death though in the fortress.