INCINERATED TROOPS!

[Fearless]

Please will someone make a request to CA to drop the incinerated troops from flaming arrows. It's pathetic and looks it in the trailers. I'm happy if the flaming arrows stay but charred remains on the battle field gives the impression the Romans are using napalm. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Fearless @ May 19 2004,14:54)]Please will someone make a request to CA to drop the incinerated troops from flaming arrows. It's pathetic and looks it in the trailers. I'm happy if the flaming arrows stay but charred remains on the battle field gives the impression the Romans are using napalm. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Swoosh So]

Yes its totally silly ill start a poll on it to maybe add some weight to your request.

[Fearless]

Thanks Emperor your vote is a start. I really feel strongly about this as it spoils the whole concept and feel to the game. Instant incineration................bloody ridiculous......who's idea was that? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[CBR]

Quote[/b] (Fearless @ May 19 2004,16:20)]......who's idea was that?
It looks cool... so I guess the CA sales department http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


CBR

[Fearless]

Thanks Swoosh So Let's hope for the sake of the game someone listens http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Swoosh So]

Yeh great i guess all you guys always wanted exploding arrows like john rambo Err well done CA http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Shahed]

OMG that was soooooooooooooooooo coooooooooool Did you see that guy ? Spontaneous combustion
The pigs look very funny as well, glowing yellow running around. It could be done a lot better.

On the plus side from the most recent vids the game is looking great. There are defintely some things (like the afore mentioned) which could be vastlty improved upon.

[Swoosh So]

Hmm i cant start a poll it says only one choice when i definately put 2. Maybe even the pc knows their is only one choice when it comes to this ;)

[Fearless]

Thank heavens we are all thinking the same http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Swoosh So]

What annoys me is why build a beutiful game, the best looking ancient battle simulator of all time then fill it full of silly effects Incinerated troopsand Warcraft style toxic waste color highlighters

[Fearless]

EXACTLY it adds no enhancement to the game at all but turns it into a silly display of special effects. Why do they do that? Please don't spoil a good game with OTT.

[Shahed]

They want it to be more like warcraft. That's why you are seeing all this in the game, they want it to be as big as Warcraft. They don't believe it can be as big as Warcraft without the quite pale effects of Warcraftism.

However the game is still in development and who knows what they might change from here till release. Let's hope and politely agitate for the best http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[The_Emperor]

I say remove the fire arrows, there's no need for them in a standard fight... Lets face it you only use flaming arrows when you want to burn something down (siege engines, buildings and other such).

Perhaps they should remove the spontaneuous combustion with the guy running around punching himself trying to put it out before he finally pegs it

[Shahed]

Options, options, options.

They could leave the fire arrows i.e you select the ammo. That way the people who want that are happy and when the others play we use em in siege situations. Or of course what would be great is to ignite a forest in which enemy troops are hiding, that everyone could enjoy and use.

Options, options, options.

[Fearless]

Just stick to a bit of reality. we have fantasy with 100's of other games. That's what makes TW so appealing....... . I hope someone is listening out there. The PC magazines will slate RTW if it gets silly despite all the originality. Years of work wasted with one silly mistake

[Shahed]

Well the problem is that CA wants the game to be very mainstream to sell great etc... their marketers obviously seem to thing (and perhaps some developers as well) that in order for the game to go mainstream there should be more focus on fantasy and less on accuracy. There they WILL (unless convinced otherwise) go the more (but not entirely) fantasy way, hoping to mass market the game.

The simplest thing to do is to make the game accurate and then include options for peole so that it can be played highly detalied or played like you were Maximus Maximum.

HOLD THE LINE STAY WITH ME

Now where's that poll we conducted about a year ago which clearly showed that the majority of this communuity wans accurate linguistics ?

edit: sorry for typos

[Fearless]

I accept that the game has to be accepted mainstream so I can go along with the dynamic catapults etc. But I don't see instant incineration as being a big selling point. I rather feel a warrior going down with several arrows sticking out of him is far more entertaining. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] ]I rather feel a warrior going down with several arrows sticking out of him is far more entertaining.

You'v'e seen far too many Gladiator-style movies... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

To be perfectly honest I think just having the flaming arrow thud in the guy's chest and him falling down would be good enough.

[SwordsMaster]

Im against flaming arrows as well.The instant incineration is trickier, consider that you have some hundreds of flaming pigs running across the battlefield.Obviously, the animals dont understand the danger they represent, and you cant switch them to hold formation (maybe some "legionary pigs" in a later release) so they run irrespectfully across the battlefield, breaking formations and setting people in fire.

be aware of the FLAMING PIGS. THEY ARE OVERPOWERED.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Swoosh So @ May 19 2004,09:26)]Yeh great i guess all you guys always wanted exploding arrows like john rambo Err well done CA http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
No f***ing way http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

You got my vote too, Fearless... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Fearless @ May 19 2004,09:55)]Just stick to a bit of reality. we have fantasy with 100's of other games. That's what makes TW so appealing....... . I hope someone is listening out there. The PC magazines will slate RTW if it gets silly despite all the originality. Years of work wasted with one silly mistake
A very good point. And a very true fact indeed. Like an Oriental would say, if they stear from the path initiated with Shogun they loose... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-chinese.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Sinan @ May 19 2004,10:04)]Well the problem is that CA wants the game to be very mainstream to sell great etc... their marketers obviously seem to thing (and perhaps some developers as well) that in order for the game to go mainstream there should be more focus on fantasy and less on accuracy. There they WILL (unless convinced otherwise) go the more (but not entirely) fantasy way, hoping to mass market the game.
A dreadfull mistake... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-sad.gif



Quote[/b] ]The simplest thing to do is to make the game accurate and then include options for peole so that it can be played highly detalied or played like you were Maximus Maximum.
Yes, true. But the greater the number of options the greater amount of work. That would give CA an excuse to make a compromisse.

[Oaty]

Geez when the game comes out theres gonna be 50 pages of options under the options menu to turn things on and off. So a month after its release there will be posters going I finally played some of the game after getting through the options menu.


Hey did somebody say Warcraft, oh yes that would be so cool with warcraft characters in there.

Theres that good old saying do'nt judge the book by the cover.

All is they are doing is making eyecandy before its release to try to get as many buyers as possible. But if you want real eyecandy go to soly's thread

[shingenmitch2]

Someone please explain to me why ALL arrows are flaming. Did I miss something in my historical reading?

BTW, where are the flaming pots they carry with them on the move to light their arrows? oh right that's why they were only used in sieges... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[DemonArchangel]

Ok, i'm not really a fan of the effects, but people should be able to catch on fire if they're not put out in time, especially if a flaming pig barrels into them.

Also, WILL YOU QUIT GRIPING I know every single member that gets RTW will play it to the point of exhaustion.

[Rob The Bastard]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif Shesh Kebab

Psst fire the arrows into the grass laugh as a grass fire engulfs your enemies positon Once the fire is out, EAT them, with lots of onions

Hmmm... can't wait to be a barbarian cannibal. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif


About garish colours... no thanks.

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (DemonArchangel @ May 19 2004,14:06)]Ok, i'm not really a fan of the effects, but people should be able to catch on fire if they're not put out in time, especially if a flaming pig barrels into them.

Also, WILL YOU QUIT GRIPING I know every single member that gets RTW will play it to the point of exhaustion.
You have to agree that it looks silly. First off, the flaming people look bad (the whole burning thing is simply ugly), then there is the point about them actually burning as soon as they are killed. How likely is that? Not very. I can understand if they died and slowly began to burn more (if they had a lot of flamable material on). But this instant cumbustion is way out of proportion.
The simple fact that it can be done is silly, I don't care about flaming arrows, stay or go I could care less. But if the troops can burn in a 'promotion' video, then they can burn in a siege as well.

[Leet Eriksson]

I vote no do not take it off simply to piss you guys off http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

I don't mind hollywood effects,aslong as the arrows kills the soldier whatever following effect/animation is just eye candy to me.Though flaming arrows should not always immolate the soldier,i just hope that it does'nt,otherwise all i'll see is incinerated corpses all over the battlefield when defending http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

EDIT:It might be cool to have a "turn all them hollywood effects off" option http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (shingenmitch2 @ May 19 2004,13:41)]Someone please explain to me why ALL arrows are flaming. Did I miss something in my historical reading?
Let's hope is just for video show-off. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif



Quote[/b] ]BTW, where are the flaming pots they carry with them on the move to light their arrows? oh right that's why they were only used in sieges... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
The invisible flaming pot question http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[Kongamato]

I dont mind most of the Hollywood touches seen in the game, but I find flaming arrows a bit over-the-top and in bad taste. If CA will do that to the graphics, what then would they do to the gameplay? Will the troops have realistic morale? Will the RPS work properly? Will there be any way to stop horse archers which fire while moving?

CA might have taken a long look at the present community and their sales figures and decided to exchange them for the more "casual" gamer market. In other words, the Pizzaface Legion. Any game with a simple enough way to win and good graphics will undoubtedly draw this massive market in. I just dont know how much we'll like RTW if it turns out to be thumb candy with an MP forum full of kids screaming "I am so 1337" in their 99999 denarii games. There'd better be decent strategy and tactics, because otherwise it's nothing but hand skill, and there's no stopping the Pizzaface Legion in that field. They use their hands a whole lot...

[Shahed]

LMAO another top quality post ROTFLMFAO

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

ROTFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif

[Leet Eriksson]

I just watched a trailer recently,it showed troops on walls that fired ordinary,non-flaming arrows,wich might be a good sign,right after the next volley they fired flaming ones,so it might be related to giving the unit orders wether to fire flaming arrows or not,you can check the trailer at www.gametrailers.com though i have a feeling that i've seen that trailer somewhere before.

[Spino]

Just found this developer post in the official forums...

Cn Iulius Flamininus
CA Staff.
Posts: 99
(5/21/04 10:56 am)
Reply Flaming arrows or not
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flaming Arrows - These are a player choice in the battle. Don't switch them on if you don't like them.

We like the pigs. To quote Pulp Fiction - "Bacon's gooooood"

The dogs are gooooood.

The screaming women have their uses.

If you don't like any of these units, don't build them.

C.I.F.

~ C.A Staff ~

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshogun....7.topic (http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm7.showMessage?topicID=4077.topic)

I think it's safe to assume that flaming arrows will not be nearly as effective as regular arrows in combat. However, beyond their effectiveness versus buildings I think there's a good chance that flaming arrows will be more effective against unarmored units.

[shingenmitch2]

my response/question to CA would be:

that flaming arrows is an on/off option:
Okay... but I want flames for sieges, but just not every friggin battle out on the plain. So if I choose "off" do I not get the flames for seiges?


"don't like them don't build them."
Well that's fine and dandy to say... but since they're built into the game, the game design might make them necessary to have...
I question how hard it will be to stop elephants without pigs? Will I need pigs every time I face elephants?

[Captain Fishpants]

There are non-piggy ways of dealing with elephants.

I managed to see off elephants with a line of ballistae in one battle. It was touch-and-go, but it worked.

You can also harry them to death with light units.

For every tactic and unit there is a counter-tactic. Finding them is half the fun

[Shamus]

Archers, javelin throwers and light infantry are all relatively effective against elephants. Just don't get them (the elephants) mixed in with your heavy infantry or cavalry.

Edit: Oops, just saw CFP's reply.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ May 21 2004,10:20)]There are non-piggy ways of dealing with elephants.

I managed to see off elephants with a line of ballistae in one battle. It was touch-and-go, but it worked.

You can also harry them to death with light units.

For every tactic and unit there is a counter-tactic. Finding them is half the fun
Good to know, Captain Fishpants http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif From what I've seen, in the videos, they didn't seem exactly manageble... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif

[shingenmitch2]

Captain,

Thanks for the response, and that is good to know.

How about the arrows? Is there a seige only flaming arrow option? or is it all "flames all the time" or "no flames all of the time"?

[Leet Eriksson]

Thanks for the response captain fishpants http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

however,camels did scare elephants on some occasions in history,can i use them in-game to counter elephants?

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (shingenmitch2 @ May 21 2004,10:55)]Captain,

Thanks for the response, and that is good to know.

How about the arrows? Is there a seige only flaming arrow option? or is it all "flames all the time" or "no flames all of the time"?
It seems like it is on an individual basis. The E3 movie from Gamestar shows that right after the deployment of the archers, the controller moved the pointer down to the right and clicks something that is just out of our view, whne he select the cavalry several buttons go grey. So I can only conclude there is a fire-arrow button just below the first little line of round buttons.

[hoom]

^
|
What he said.
From the video & what CA have said, its an option like 'hold formation'.

[Oaty]

Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ May 21 2004,11:20)]There are non-piggy ways of dealing with elephants.

I managed to see off elephants with a line of ballistae in one battle. It was touch-and-go, but it worked.

You can also harry them to death with light units.

For every tactic and unit there is a counter-tactic. Finding them is half the fun
You mean there will be an actual use for ballistas in this game

[Nowake]

I managed to see off elephants with a line of ballistae in one battle. It was touch-and-go, but it worked.

maybe I'm not familiar with the expression, but .. touch and go with ballistae?

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Quote[/b] (Nowake @ May 22 2004,11:03)]I managed to see off elephants with a line of ballistae in one battle. It was touch-and-go, but it worked.

maybe I'm not familiar with the expression, but .. touch and go with ballistae?
I think he means he managed to bring down the last of the elephants just before they reached his lines.

[Nowake]

oh, that would make sense, thanks; it doesn't seem to be the most suitable expression though

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Quote[/b] (Nowake @ May 22 2004,11:12)]oh, that would make sense, thanks; it doesn't seem to be the most suitable expression though
touch-and-go INFORMAL


describes a situation which is uncertain:

- The doctor says that it's touch-and-go whether Mary will be okay.

It seems ok-it was uncertain whether the elephants would reach his lines.

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (oaty @ May 21 2004,23:45)]You mean there will be an actual use for ballistas in this game
You haven't noticed thatthey come in groups now? I have seen four and possibly five siege engines in one unit. Five Ballistas should be rather devastating to elephants. I can't imagine an elephant would survive a hit, and if it did it wouldn't like to go on, hence a routing elephant.

I actually speculated on using ballistas for anti-elephant use back when we heard about the groups of them. The one hit one kill just looked too good in my mind.

[Fearless]

Thanks guys for all your imput to this topic and putting my mind at rest. Also a BIG THANKYOU to CA. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Colovion]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ May 22 2004,07:57)]
Quote[/b] (oaty @ May 21 2004,23:45)]You mean there will be an actual use for ballistas in this game
You haven't noticed thatthey come in groups now? I have seen four and possibly five siege engines in one unit. Five Ballistas should be rather devastating to elephants. I can't imagine an elephant would survive a hit, and if it did it wouldn't like to go on, hence a routing elephant.

I actually speculated on using ballistas for anti-elephant use back when we heard about the groups of them. The one hit one kill just looked too good in my mind.
Wow that would be awesome, Ballistas are incredibly strong anti-elephant units but they don't hit them often so you need a few.... good idea http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif

[Kraxis]

Ballistas aren't the most accurate weapons out there, but consider the size of the elephants and the size of the units themselves. And if you have 4-5 ballistas you ought to hit one elephant quite fast.

And I have heard mention of ballista arrows killing more than one man per hit, but I have not seen any confirmation of this (only read it once and none have mentioned it since).