Returning to the Fold

[ROCKHAMMER]

I have found a slightly wasteful way to return to the good graces of the Pope's eyes. I recently had my HRE king excommunicated over a slight little war with the Polish. At the time I was also at war with the English. I took advantage of my misfortune by having my forces reduce the English Empire down to the province of Scotland only and then split the Polish Empire in half by capturing Poland. By this time I was starting to fight off Catholic rebellions left and right. I fought off all of the rebellions hoping my King would expire in the meantime to some rare disease, but it was not meant to be. I grew impatient waiting so I decided to have my King attack the Polish army all by his lonesome. You can guess the outcome. Needless to say the HRE elected a new Emperor and VOILA I am once again a tied and true member of the Catholic church.

Has anyone else ever used this tactic or something like it to overcome a negative situation in the game? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The only reason I took this approach is because my King left much to be desired. I don't want anyone to think me unwise in choosing this approach. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif

[Magraev]

I don't think I've ever killed my king off.

I much prefer assassinating the pope. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-glasses2.gif

[mfberg]

I tried to kill my king in my Danish game, he was 0 acumen with some bad vices (odd number of toes, greed), but had a good heir. He attacked the Pomeranian rebels single handed, won; attacked Prussia the next turn, wins again I had to go back and autocalc to get him dead.

mfberg

[Tricky Lady]

It's probably easier to kill the pope.
Of course when your king has terrible stats, and his heir has incredible stats, you're better off sending the king to die like a hero in a battle with hordes of rebels.

[Auxilia]

Yep I'm for killin' the pope too

That or checking up on his age and riding my luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[ROCKHAMMER]

How hard is the Pope to kill if everyone prefers this approach? I personally have never tried so I am curious to know this. Does it require an Assasin of a certain level? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-glasses2.gif

[Tricky Lady]

I believe a 3*+ assassin can handle the job easily.

You can train your vanilla assassin on some of your own defenseless peasant generals, or on some easy agent targets that dare to roam through your kingdom. They'll reach a good level rather quickly.
Another popular tactic is building up Syria to get 5* assassins popping out. (you'll need the VI add-on for this).

[solypsist]

assassination is a good way, and cheaper than losing a king. otherwise, check the pope's age and you can usually wait it out.

[octavian]

if you can get them grand inquisitors are also very effective against the pope. even if they fail the first time, the target very often gets the Atheist vice (-8 piety) which means next time it is much more likely to succeed.

[katank]

swarms of castillian grand inquisitors certainly do the trick as well as the irony of frying da poesta.

syrian assasins are awesome too.

as catholic, if crusading, you need Syria to consolidate the crusader bloc anyhow.

regicide isn't great and if you get some bad vices in failed attempts to get him killed or accidentally get him trapped, it could result in disaster.

I usually keep my king and kill the pope but regicide does happen every now and then.

[ichi]

I usually send 5 or 6 assassins in one turn, 'cause I don't want to fail and have the Pope get a anti-assassin Virtue. A V3 assassin is usually effective, but I prefer certainty, so I send in assassins so that their combined chance of success is greater than 100% (for example, the V3 assassin has a 24% chance so I send 2, while a V2 assassin has an %18 chance, so I also send 2, plus 2 V1 assassins each with a 10% chance works out to 24%+24%+18%+18%+10%+10%=104%) Now this isn't actually accurate in predicting success, its just a rule of thum that I use.

Another option is to simply invade all of the Papal provinces, wipe out the Papal army, then withdraw and let him re-emerge.

You can also drop assassins on your King. Same deal as above, send in a couple to make sure the job gets done.

ichi

[solypsist]

when the Pope re-emerges, he usually does so on your held territory, which is not a desirable thing.

[King Edward]

And he is Usually hard ans nails, masses of armored Knights and Halberds, packs a nasty punch

[katank]

fighting off papal reemergences are an interesting way to train up your troops although it's a crazy drain.

I recommend covert ops or just raze the lands, leave, and let them deal with ensuing rebels.

remember that you only need to kill the pope in battle to eliminate the faction though so rushing 16 units of heavy cav at his BG can be useful and is almost guaranteed to kill him.

[SpencerH]

The problem I had in my last game was that during my excommunication I ended up at war with every other catholic faction, all of which were smaller than me. After dealing with the Pope, I was still at war with everyone including the papacy. Eventually, I was excommunicated again since I refused to allow a Spanish crusade to suck up my troops (I was at war with the Spanish) then returned to the church. After the fourth (or so) time I was excommunicated, I just gave up and the slaughter began.

Its not a great system if you're the frontrunner.

[katank]

not at all.

My typical course of action is to destroy all catholic neighbors ASAP if I'm excommed and take steps towards killing the pope.

In the turns of gathering assasins and letting inquisitors pump up zeal for inquisition, I usually can take out about 2 or 3 catholic factions.

once I'm recommed, I try to stay neutral with the catholic factions and focus on infidels and rebels by crusading etc.

[SpencerH]

Quote[/b] (katank @ May 21 2004,19:29)]once I'm recommed, I try to stay neutral with the catholic factions and focus on infidels and rebels by crusading etc.
Thats my point, no catholic country swung back to neutral, even countries with whom I had been allied for 200 years. They all remained at war with me and would eventually attack me. They were never excommed and when I took their provinces I was excommed again.

[katank]

key, sink all their ships and beat all of their armies into castles on your borders.

if these are their last provinces, just eliminate them.

else, pull out the next turn and you should be neutral.

pull out your agents and kill any of theirs in you territories.

this requires huge amounts of resources though to smash 3 or 4 neighbors into submission all along your borders.

[solypsist]

I've been excommunicated several times by refusing crusades passage.
sometimes you just don't want to lose those good troops (which is moot since if you're forced to defend, you lose some anyway).

[katank]

move them out and move in enough trash troops to discourage AI's from attacking.

I don't mind them sucking up a few peasants. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[ah_dut]

BURN THE POPE NOW Grand inquisitors do the job nicely. Turn the pope into an aethist and burnbrn burn. I ubderstand that there have been 30 changes of pope in my game in the last 30 years http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I use that technique to get rid of pervert generals, too bad his unit dies too.
-Capo

[katank]

also, when they are busy burning people, they don't burn the populace and the zeal can safely go through the roof while he burns some useless peasant year after year after year. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[King Edward]

Playing as the english yesterday (Early, was around 1098ish) I recieved 1000 florins from his holynes in the same year i got excommed for some frog bashing (no offence to any French people here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )

The next year the pope died and i was Welcomed back by the new pope I think my people were to confused about their religous status to cause any problems by the Excomm http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[katank]

yep, had that happen several times.

I was the French though and had the generous donation from his excellency the same year as excomm warning and then for two more years while pounding the Brits to a pulp.

I killed the Brits and dodged excomm although somehow the florins stopped too.

I think he doesn't really like the Brits.

[King Edward]

I made a balls up of a war with the Italians so started again and the same thing happend again weird. Having trouble capuring the french king as he always seems to fight to the death rather than let him self be captured. Oh well means i get a good 5* UM by bribing the now rebles in Brittany http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[TheSilverKnight]

I usually assassinate the Pope with my 5-6 valour assassins

[katank]

well, if you capture and ransom him, you most likely risk excomm.

killing him is better.

the 5* UM is usually too expensive for me as Brits and I rather kill him and use my own Strongbow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I tend to focus fire upon royals with archers and/or javs and mtd x-bows are great too.

I decimate their units and they don't do nearly as much damage this way although I rarely capture them alive when he's pounded by arrows and bolts.

BTW, a few naptha if you have any will send him on his merry way even faster. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif