Citadel

[WorkNeglecter]

I need quick confirmation of this, although I checked in another thread (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=8854;hl=catapult+towers). I'm expecting the horde in Khazar in just 41 years and I've only got a keep. Do I need to build all the improvements at each level or do I get them if I just tech directly up to the citadel? Then of course I'll add a barbican...

[mfberg]

Build straight to Citadel I believe it includes the others.

mfberg

[cutepuppy]

Yep, citadel includes catapult and ballista towers.

[katank]

all upgrades from previous levels are included so you can get demiculv towers even before gunpowder by building a fortress.

build like crazy fortification defense agains the horde is really fun.

[octavian]

here is a question then, why bother with the upgrades if you get them anyways?

[squippy]

Becuase you migyt have to throw them up in a hurry. They are an option, not an alternative.

[katank]

also, they prevent the tech level by decreasing.

if the castle gets starved out or something, it's decreased by one which would be next level down with two upgrades.

this could be devstating as you can no longer build more advanced units. (ie. keep becomes fort, motte, and bailey thus making for no shipyards etc.)

also, you may not have the dough to build the next level.

[Oaty]

I should mention that a citadel is powerful alone but with a barbican are just plain deadly and I had to assault 1 because it was going to hold out for a good 3 years or more and I had to send in unit after unit just to take out 120 urban militia and 120 archers. A barbican upgrade also strengthens both gates and if I remember correctly it took 2 units to break the first gate and 2 units to break the second gate. The other thing it also does is all units on the gate side of the map are targetable by the barbican. I can't recall the losses I took assaulting it but I'm thinking I had lost about 600 men to overun 120 men

[katank]

anything beyond a castle that's upgraded is deadly.

assaulting one of those without proper siege weaponry is usually suicdial in terms of loss rate.

[Chimpyang]

unless you autoresolve, i tend to lose less that way http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[nightcrawlerblue]

I don't even bother upgrading anymore. All the enemy does is ignore my great castles etc. and starve me out.

[Ragss]

Im planning on putting a unit of less than 20 (as in mostly dead) in Kiev (err...the province on the very right of the map) in a fortress and barbican...than way the horde will be forced to seige it since it will last indeffinatly.

[katank]

umm, the horde actually assault so your unit better be buff.

I've defended khazar with 600 gold gold joms and they still assaulted.

the horde is quite daring but you shoudl make them pay for their audacity.

let the fortress rip em apart.

[Ragss]

Well it didnt go so good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I left 27 7 valour katanks to defend, assuming that the horde would take insane casualties. Well, long story short, they didnt. Of the 10 000 assulters, maybe 500 died. The biggest problem was my own catapult towers shooting my gate open, nice job dipshits

Also, those bastards appeared in the province just right of Rum, where I had no soldeirs. This campaign looks to be in the crapper as im now at war with 7 different empires spread over about 10 provinces ahhaha. And I have zero allies.

[katank]

you need about 300 min. to make a decent defense and be sure to rotate the units out to rest them as you have a long fight in front of you.

try to wreck their siege using your own catapults and not to rely on castle defense which might blow your own gates open.

hold with the units you defend with and don't try to kill, instead let the castle do the killing.

the katanks dont' have anti cav or anything against the MHC and if dismounted, byz inf just isn't enough to hold them off.

I suggest armored beasts like huscarles or halbs although I prefer the former if you have access.

these can maul the MHC in melee and hold indefinitely if you rest them and arrows bounce off them.