So Sick of Elephants Already....

[Barkhorn1x]

I mean c'mon - these beasts were NOT ancient King Tigers - rather they were like ancient Ferdinands - easy to dispatch once you figured out how.

Yet...every damn preview - be it a clip or written - talks all about the elephants (and their symbiotic mates - the flaming pigs).

This all just so much Hollywood BS. I just hope that they are expensive as hell to train - and to maintain - so that we don't see Seluecid or Carthaginian "Elephant Armies".

And another thing (or two);
- if elephants are coming at Legionnaries and a pilum barrage doesn't cause them to go berserk - that's more BS.
- if elephants are coming at a phalanx and those long spears don't cause them to go sidesways - that's even more BS.

Barkhorn.

[Shahed]

I watched just about every single video from RTW yesterday and I have to admit: I wanted to show some friends at least 2 good videos BUT I had to find TWO which did not have elephants in both....was not that difficult considering there are not that many vids but still almost every single one has elephants in it.

[Shahed]

I would like to see some of the other units I watched on the TC episodes today and I'd like to see some of the Persian units, hardly saw anything of them outside TC. Maybe they are not ready yet ?

[The_Emperor]

I think its just a marketing decision.

Elephants are completely new to the TW Series.
They are big and dramatic so they look good when marketing the product.

Anyway we have seen many units by now and not just the Elephants.

It all looks very impressive I say.

[The Wizard]

I like the look of them, smashing Romans and such, but I certainly hope that they will not become a terribly annoying nuisance like MTW vanilla unpatched jedi generals...

Think of it; a unit of 12 elephants, 9 valour veterans, comes up to you and smashes your front line of the finest troops, and a few peasant-like troops come up and end the remains of your army while it's still dazed. :\



~Wiz

[hoom]

I was discussing Rome & Elephants with my flatmate the other day & came upon an interesting point.

Most people (myself included) don't know very much about the Roman period but at the first mention of War Elephants, more or less everyone (of european ancestry that I know of) goes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-speechless.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smoking.gif
I think thats an indication of how much of an emotional impact the elephants had on the psyche of ancient Europe.
Its not just the hollywood aspect either (have there even been any hollywood movies with elephants?) because its well & truly present in amongst other things the Lord of the Rings where even the hobbits have heard rumor of the mighty Oliphaunts.

The fact that they mostly weren't all that effective in battle is beside the point.

Like has been said already I hope they'll be expensive to build\maintain & slow to build too.

[Longshanks]

I don't have a problem with them being slightly more effective than they were historically, but I fear that they may be grossly overpowered. At least that is how it seems from the videos.

I can understand that elephants smashing through heavy infantry has a marketable "Wow" factor, but I hope balance wasn't sacrificed.

[Scipio]

As I have said before, Im sure they won't be as effective as you might think. They are strong thats for sure, but you haven't seen elephantsmget routed yet. So far in the clips, CA has left the pigs behind the lines to show the strength off them when I would think they should probobly be in front. In essence I feel if they can get to the enemy they are really strong, but getting to the enemy might be harder than expected...

[RisingSun]

Quote[/b] ]As I have said before, Im sure they won't be as effective as you might think. They are strong thats for sure, but you haven't seen elephantsmget routed yet.

That's exactly what worries me...

[Zawath]

They can be easily killed by javelinmen as seen on TC. It only takes few volleys to kill most of the elephants in the group

[katank]

so are they just heavily armored and taken down by javs then?

I still hope they don't become BGs and thus get crazy jedi valour etc.

V29 eles wouldn't be fun to face.

[Shamus]

Quote[/b] (Zawath @ May 22 2004,12:05)]They can be easily killed by javelinmen as seen on TC. It only takes few volleys to kill most of the elephants in the group
Exactly. They showed the elephants in an earlier episode of TC, and a group of inexperienced individuals took them down with relative ease. Elephants will tear through heavy infantry, like armoured horses will tear through peasants. But as we all know, let some spearmen at those horses, and down they go. Elephants (from what I have seen) will mess you up if you use the wrong troops against them. Use the right troops properly though, and elephants will pose little problem. Elephants will be a big investment as I understand it, and with the risk of having them wiped out easily by the right troops, I don’t think we are going to see armies of elephants dominating the battlefield. I really think they will function more as support troops.

[Spino]

Well we've only seen elephants charge through formations of heavy troops, not light ones. Perhaps CA has made it so their fearsome charge is lessened or negated when coming into contact with light troops??

[[DnC]]

Citaat[/b] (katank @ Mei 22 2004,14:21)]so are they just heavily armored and taken down by javs then?

I still hope they don't become BGs and thus get crazy jedi valour etc.

V29 eles wouldn't be fun to face.
I remember reading somewhere that there will be a valour cap of 4. Could someone confirm that I haven't just imagined reading it?

If this is true, then you don't get these overbalanced "uber" units due to (very) high valour anymore.

[Shamus]

Quote[/b] (Spino @ May 22 2004,14:33)]Well we've only seen elephants charge through formations of heavy troops, not light ones. Perhaps CA has made it so their fearsome charge is lessened or negated when coming into contact with light troops??
Well, in one of the episodes of TC when elephants were being used, the history experts explained why it was that light infantry were so much more effective against elephants. Many of them had long spears and were more agile units than the heavy infantry. This meant that they could easily move under and around the animals, stabbing upwards with their spears.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Shamus @ May 22 2004,20:47)]Well, in one of the episodes of TC when elephants were being used, the history experts explained why it was that light infantry were so much more effective against elephants. Many of them had long spears and were more agile units than the heavy infantry. This meant that they could easily move under and around the animals, stabbing upwards with their spears.
Yes exactly, they also mentioned this in the Trebbia episode as well... The Light infantrymen could get out of the elephant's way and then stab upwards into the Elephants soft weakspot in the Elephant's underside.

[Leet Eriksson]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ May 22 2004,14:57)]
Quote[/b] (Shamus @ May 22 2004,20:47)]Well, in one of the episodes of TC when elephants were being used, the history experts explained why it was that light infantry were so much more effective against elephants. Many of them had long spears and were more agile units than the heavy infantry. This meant that they could easily move under and around the animals, stabbing upwards with their spears.
Yes exactly, they also mentioned this in the Trebbia episode as well... The Light infantrymen could get out of the elephant's way and then stab upwards into the Elephants soft weakspot in the Elephant's underside.
Perhaps the loosely organised eastern infantry and german spearmen warbands have some uses to them afterall

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Quote[/b] (faisal @ May 22 2004,23:36)]
Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ May 22 2004,14:57)]
Quote[/b] (Shamus @ May 22 2004,20:47)]Well, in one of the episodes of TC when elephants were being used, the history experts explained why it was that light infantry were so much more effective against elephants. Many of them had long spears and were more agile units than the heavy infantry. This meant that they could easily move under and around the animals, stabbing upwards with their spears.
Yes exactly, they also mentioned this in the Trebbia episode as well... The Light infantrymen could get out of the elephant's way and then stab upwards into the Elephants soft weakspot in the Elephant's underside.
Perhaps the loosely organised eastern infantry and german spearmen warbands have some uses to them afterall
Yes, this would seem to be one of the advantages. I think one of the primary reasons for the 'phants is to give an effective counter to the romans.

[Ragss]

THEY GET BACK UP I was just studying one of the IGN videos, and if you watch VERY close you will see that many of the soldiers flung into the air, get back up This means that teh eles are not overpowered, and they serve to break up formations...sorry if this has already been pointed out :P

[hundurinn]

The are powerful if used correctly and are the doom of your army if you don't usem the correctly. I wouldn't take the chance of killing my own men with those monsters. I would just use other tactics to kill the Romans. And if you don't like them then don't use them in the game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[Colovion]

Quote[/b] (Ragss @ May 22 2004,23:45)]THEY GET BACK UP I was just studying one of the IGN videos, and if you watch VERY close you will see that many of the soldiers flung into the air, get back up This means that teh eles are not overpowered, and they serve to break up formations...sorry if this has already been pointed out :P
Yeah in Age of Mythology there are similar instances where units are flung into the air, lose a considerable amount of hitpoints but still get up and come back to fight. I like it that way.

[squippy]

Quote[/b] (katank @ May 22 2004,13:21)]I still hope they don't become BGs and thus get crazy jedi valour etc.

V29 eles wouldn't be fun to face.
Come to think of it, Elephants would be the bodygiard of an Indian ruler wouldn't they? Hehe...