View Full Version : "Pause" during battles vs. AI?
I know there's no 'pause' in on-line play, but I don't play on-line (a bit intimidated, and I like being able to start and stop playing when I want w/o worrying about leaving allies in the lurch). At the same time, I've been trying to master battling without it, to only limited success. I find it quite difficult to issue time-efficient commands in real time, putting me at a real disadvantage to the AI. Especially in larger-army battles
So, do you 'pause' when solo v. AI?
NewJeffCT
05-21-2004, 16:32
Never paused when I first got the game for Christmas 2002. However, I played the Turks for the first time a few months after that and found I couldn't properly manage the horse archers & Turcoman horse without pausing a few times per battle... and, it's been a hard habit to break since.
SpencerH
05-21-2004, 16:35
It doesnt make sense to not use the pause against the AI. It has instantaneous control of all its units.
Tricky Lady
05-21-2004, 17:37
I use the pause button all the time, without exceptions.
Perhaps later, in a far far-away future, when I get really really good and desperately need a new challenge to keep the game interesting. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif
If the enemy does o full frontal charge, and my archers are in front of my spearmen i pause. But in other occasions ir rarely use it, i dont like too much micromanagement.
I can see using it to help when you're learning the ropes. But, when it gets to playing on-line, it's best to practice against something that has instantaneous control. It's a challange that helps you grow as a player. I was the n00biest n00b when I came to mp. I didn't even know you could pause. Dragging units to reform was unknown magic to me.
Maychargewithoutorders
05-21-2004, 19:02
When i started playing the game i paused all the time as i just couldnt keep up with all the things that were going on especially with the big battles. With time i began using it less and less and now only use it in case of emergancies (take a phone call, need the toilet, spilled my coffee http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )
Divine Wind
05-21-2004, 20:09
Rarely for me. I dont like using it unless the phone goes or someone is at the door.
I hate that I use it, but I constantly use it. The way I play I have my forces spread all around, so not pausing would mean i would constantly be forgetting about groups here or there. Even with pausing in my turk campaign I constantly had my turcoman horse archers get rolled because I forgot about em.
Its a habbit I want to break.
I also often pause due to HA.
it's quite possible to get amazing kill ratios with say 16 szeks blazing their way aroudn the map.
unfortunately, for mortals like me, I find no way to manage them all without pause as they would simply be neglected and get slaguhtered.
Also, the maneuvering in geenral is so much easier with pause.
ChaosLord
05-22-2004, 01:50
I use pause now and then throughout the battle, usually in combination with speed up option. I'd go crazy watching all of a bridge battle. So I just let it run and pause a few times to adjust things. Same goes for the intial setup on regular battles. But beyond that I only use it to stop and overlook the battlefield during a battle. I don't view it as a cheat, just another game option. Personally, i'd be happier with turn-based combat too. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Well, I don't even know what the pause key is, so that shows you how often I use it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
If I get a phone call, or need to leave briefly, I just hit esc, which pauses, but doesn't let you issue any orders. Works for me. I figure that I've got enough of an advantage over the AI (having a brain), I can afford to let it have one on me.
Bh
Don't pause. If you play with it you will rely on it. Don't use and soon you won't even realize you are not pausing. Using pause allows one to replace organization with an easy out. Pause reduces the need for a systematic approach to battles, an understanding of the commands, a process to prioritize where to focus, and the importance of staying calm and concentrating under pressure.
I think that you will get a lot better a lot faster without it.
I say this with all humility. I routinely get my @$$ kicked by the AI and folks in the MP lobby. But every time I 'work thru' the chaos and confusion and difficulty of trying to command 16 units I get a little better.
Now if only that learning wouldn't leak out onto my pillow as I sleep.
ichi
Ichi, you beat your self up like the uglies do, you guys aren't bad. You're good.
Don't pause. If you play with it you will rely on it. Don't use and soon you won't even realize you are not pausing. Using pause allows one to replace organization with an easy out. Pause reduces the need for a systematic approach to battles, an understanding of the commands, a process to prioritize where to focus, and the importance of staying calm and concentrating under pressure.
As ichi said. Anyways, the thing is that, without pausing, you actually have the feeling of winning the battle, not just having a programmed SP slaughter.
Frankymole
05-22-2004, 23:54
I love using it. It balances the game. The AI can instantaeously react and move all its units at once, issue commands to 15 or 16 units at once etc. It would be madness not to use it - effectively, the AI does. The AI certainly doesn't have to click on 16 units and issue commands one by one individually like we're forced to.
Glad to see the poll shows us pausers winning easily.
Maedhros
05-23-2004, 00:23
It is tempting to use it with horse archers, though i tend to employ them in smaller numbers than some.
I use pause at the very opening of battle. The computer isn't good at reading my mind and doesn't deploy the men exactly where, or how i want them. So I pause and rearrange.
I find the best way to get the perpective of other units especially the far ranging HA is just double click them, and if you don't want to warp over the countryside, a jerk of the mouse skips this.
If this still takes to much time, reconsider how you employ your troops or how much risk you are willing to accept.
I find pause helpful and since I use speed slider often, I usually end up with a great surplus of time compared to 100% speed all the way.
I still like 16 HA armies though and find it impossible without pause.
talking about balance. Is it really possible for me to beat the Byz any other way a few years into the game when I'm facing the Varangians and Katanks?
I don't really know how often I pause during a battle, but I think I do it a lot. I don't care if it's not realistic, I just try to make my units fight a good, good-looking battle.
gaijinalways
05-23-2004, 16:53
Using pause when your units are spread all over the field just makes good sense. Besides, it is a feature of the game, so you as a player are not cheating anyone. If you wish to make the game harder or prepare for on-line play, that's your choice. Personally when I have units all over the place, I still don't always pause often enough (or slow down the action enough) so as to avoid having some of my forward units behind enemy lines from being killed/routed. But sometimes that unit's function is just that, to distract another unit (or units) to keep them away from the main battle.
Some battles I don't use pause much at all as all my units are together, though I still like to use it to recall units that are running off, to change the targets for missile units, and to regroup to help out units who are struggling.
I don't feel like I'm masterfully always kicking the AI's butt that I can afford to not use pause at the moment
Lord Armbandit
05-23-2004, 22:02
You have to use Pause to make up for the AI's instant command of all troops.
Katank's Horse archer scenario is the best example of this. Of course this does make MP a different prospect entirely, but there everyone has the same set-up and can't control 16 units at once.
I also use Pause when I've had some kind of hand-spasm and clicked somewhere inappropriate, or when I'm forming my troops up for the attack. I don't think this is 'cheesy' - just good sense.
Colovion
05-23-2004, 23:34
I actually never have. Back when I was reading the reviews for the game I remember reading that you can pause mid-battle and thought it was kind of a cheap way to win - but hearing some of the arguments in favour of pausing I might try it.
Well yes, maybe, but considering the fact that not pausing really improves your overall game, it's still better not to use it.
Nah - I use pause loads. It may make you a better multiplayer player, but the stupidity of having units stand round without orders irks me. A forgotten unit will just stand there and get peppered by archers frex and just not respond. Thats silly. Also, I can't order a unit into a certain line depth without the draw function... that irks me too. IRL, you'd just say "form 3 deep" and they'd do it, but this game - and its better than most by a long way - obliges you to do it yourself.
Give me intelligent unit commanders and I'll stop using pause. But as long as I have to do the thinking for at least 16 brains, I'm going to use pause.
I think the number keys lets you get into the line depth.
I usually still use draw though.
more unit behavior options are definitely going to be helpful.
if you can set say guard another unit to let spears guard siege etc, that would be awesome as would be say raid setting for HAs where they just run and shoot to annoy the enemy but try not to get caught.
I never use pause unless real life intrudes. Pauses interrupt the flow of the battle for me because I enjoy the feeling that time waits for no man and that I must decide what to do NOW. The pace of the game is such that I seldom feel rushed. Those occasions where I miss an opportunity because I'm busy elsewhere in the field I chalk up to the friction of battle and the fortunes of war. I always live with the results of each battle too though I save frequently to guard against system crashes.
Pausing or no pausing, it's all good fun.
that's the spirit.
I can't seem to get away from all HA armies and needing amazing kill ratios though.
too bad I often fight a brilliant battle and then CTD occurs. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif they really need to make the game less crash prone.
Colovion
05-25-2004, 07:47
I fought my first battle using the Pause key - and I have to say that I think that it's of the most use at the very beginning - when you see where the enemy is and you can pause the game and reposition your troops. After that, I didn't use it anymore.
VikingHorde
05-25-2004, 17:28
I only pause if nature call's http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
yep, assigning commands early on is the main time for ample pause.
later on, you only need to maneuver out of tight spots and carry out that perfect flank or rear maneuver.
I never found it that necessary though for anything other than missile cav esp. jinettes who have really short range and mtd x-bows who can't wait to get into melee.
Somebody Else
05-26-2004, 04:20
I pause pretty much whenever I'm giving an order. Then again, I also always have the speed slider all the way to the right. Trying to do things on the fly then is a tad tricky.
Quote[/b] (katank @ May 24 2004,12:42)]I think the number keys lets you get into the line depth.
Oh really? Can anyone confirm that? I'd love it if this worked.
Incidentally I see Cossacks has now implemented gioving orders while paused as well.
Daveybaby
05-26-2004, 10:05
I pause whenever i feel the need - i usually spend a lot of the time with the speed slider set to maximum, and use the pause key liberally to check on the general status of things, and see whether its time to go to 'normal' speed and start controlling things with a bit more attention to detail.
I can see the logic behind training yourself to do without it if youre going to be playing multiplayer, but otherwise youre not really achieving anything. I prefer to take my time and think about things - treat it as a proper strategy game rather than an RTS (i.e. no strategy, just a clickfest).
I don't really think combat is strategy. War is strategy. Battle is tactics. And tactical combat, by nature, is real time.
However, even without pausing, I don't think TW is a 'clickfest' by any stretch.
Bh
R'as al Ghul
05-26-2004, 10:54
Hi all,
I voted rarely but I've to admit that the "P"- Key was my best friend as Turks in SP mode.
Since I joined the world of online MP it became my bane. In the first battles I was constantly, unconsciously, hitting "P" whenever I was in Trouble or had the feeling that it was too fast for me to react.
In my first online game I pressed "P" while being routed completely off the field. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif
Too my surprise I was laughing the whole of the time 'cause I felt so embarassed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
Nowadays I've gotten quicker and try to avoid the Key at all. I use it sometimes in SP, though, in moments like the abovementioned.
There's no shame in pausing but if you want to compete online you better start avoiding it.
Cheers
R'as
Daveybaby
05-26-2004, 13:58
Quote[/b] (Bhruic @ May 26 2004,04:38)]I don't really think combat is strategy. War is strategy. Battle is tactics. And tactical combat, by nature, is real time.
However, even without pausing, I don't think TW is a 'clickfest' by any stretch.
Bh
True, and true.
I just dont see much point in avoiding pause in SP. There has often been a view expressed that youre not playing the game 'properly' if you pause, as if its somehow cheating - which, frankly, i find to be a bizarre attitude. People should play the game in whichever way gives them the most enjoyment.
The way i play would probably bug the living hell out of a lot of people. The speed slider rarely moves off of maximum, and i pause, issue orders, and off it goes at a sprint again. I play this way mainly because i got sick of the situation where i had just fought one 2 hour marathon battle, its 1 a.m. and i need to go to bed because i've got work in the morning, and up pops another massive battle in the same turn I know you can save between battles now, but old habits (from the shogun days) die hard.
I'm not sure it would "bug the hell" out of me, but it certainly wouldn't be the way I choose to play. And I don't think I look at pausing as "cheating", but I do think it can take away from some of the immersiveness. But I've never been one to try and tell other people how they should play their game. Recommend, maybe, but not tell. :)
Bh
ToranagaSama
05-26-2004, 18:38
Oh no, not this again
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Can't resist.
Pausing is for Wimps
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Quote[/b] (squippy @ May 26 2004,02:23)]
Quote[/b] (katank @ May 24 2004,12:42)]I think the number keys lets you get into the line depth.
Oh really? Can anyone confirm that? I'd love it if this worked.
Incidentally I see Cossacks has now implemented gioving orders while paused as well.
When a group of units is selected the 'number' keys will select a group formation.
Quote[/b] ]I don't really think combat is strategy. War is strategy. Battle is tactics. And tactical combat, by nature, is real time.
However, even without pausing, I don't think TW is a 'clickfest' by any stretch.
Outstanding
Quote[/b] ]And I don't think I look at pausing as "cheating", but I do think it can take away from some of the immersiveness. But I've never been one to try and tell other people how they should play their game. Recommend, maybe, but not tell. :)
Even Better Bhruic you rule Very well said mate
ichi
Quote[/b] (ichi @ May 26 2004,19:38)]When a group of units is selected the 'number' keys will select a group formation.
This I know; I thought it was being said that there was a keyboard shortcut for the number of ranks a unit adopts. If I have to draw my units such that I'm paying attention to rank depth, I feel no compuntion about doing so on pause.
Quote[/b] ]Glad to see the poll shows us pausers winning easily.
Yes, but you're only winning because you're pausing, so no honour there. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Quote[/b] ]You have to use Pause to make up for the AI's instant command of all troops.
No, we don't have to pause to make up for it, but people are obviously welcome to do so. Assuming that we do have to compensate for this AI feature, don't we also have to make up for AI stupidities (more like glitches) like the holy spot, when the AI masses almost all its army onto a single spot, often turning away from your entire army and just stand there being shot up from behind?
Quote[/b] ]There has often been a view expressed that youre not playing the game 'properly' if you pause, as if its somehow cheating - which, frankly, i find to be a bizarre attitude. People should play the game in whichever way gives them the most enjoyment.
As has been pointed out in previous threads on this same subject, there is noone forbidding you to pause to your hearts content. People can individually decide what they want to do with their game. However, people can also individually define what they consider cheating or cheesy and that is way you sometimes hear people calling this a cheat.
Quote[/b] ]Oh no, not this again
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Can't resist.
Pausing is for Wimps
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Finally, some words of wisdom. +2 valour to Toranaga Sama.
As for those of you who pause to help control many units at once, you are really using the wrong key. Instead of using the P key, you might want to use the G key.
I'm constantly pausing. I'm an old time turn-based wargamer and pausing often gives you something very like turn-based gameplay without the gamey IGO-UGO mechanics. It never occurred to me people would think this style of playing is for "wimps", but whatever rocks their boat...
I pause the game when I need to give complex orders (usually when I want my battle line to charge in formation) or when I lose oversight. I try to limit the latter, but it just happens too often in large battles. Perhaps I need to stop pressing pause so I learn to control large battles better.
Sociopsychoactive
05-28-2004, 01:20
I do use pause quite a bit, but usually to combat the soldiers stupidity. When attacking i immediately pause to tell everyone where to go, and when I tell my entire army to move I often need to pause and re-sort the whole formation because the troops wandered off in random directions and completely lost the battle lines. Other than that I only pause in emergencies, real life intervening, units getting hopelessly lost or confused and needing lots of attention to sort out, tings like that.
And yes, we do need to compensate for the AI's instantanious control, we mere humans are at a disadvantage, untill synaptic links to computers are developed we cannot tell everyone what to do all at once, we have to do it all manually, and that takes time. When you think about it, in large battles that takes LOADS of time. If it were real-life battles the order would be shouted, the horns blown or flags raised and the unit responds, so it would take some time to sort out, for BOTH sides.
The AI's instntanious control is a big advantage, and while yes the AI is often actually AS (Artificial stupidity) and does very foolish things, but then again I have several time accidently thrown my best horses into a wall or spears, or charged into the fray with my general leading, so these make up for it. I also don;t play much multi-player, and therefore make use of pause at least once in every battle I fight, but usually to sort out my troops prior to the battle, and that is fair in my eyes.
Waffle waffle blah blah, can you tell it's past 1am?
yep, the units you have also lack basic intelligence.
the cav would sometimes spontaneously slam into a spear wall.
you need to maneuver units out of trouble.
I find it difficult to do large battles against superior forces without pause as often maneuvering is the only way to victory and trying to make 16 units do everything at once is next to impossible.
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